Differences between BJJ and Japanese JJ?

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Differences between BJJ and Japanese JJ?
Original Poster: Kyorgi
Forum: Grappling & Jiu-Jitsu
Posted On: 29-12-2006, 05:48

Orginal Post: Kyorgi: This is something I’ve been curious about for a while. What are the differences between JJJ and BJJ? If BJJ was created from JJJ they should be pretty similar right?

Post: goongaloonga:

JJJ has a lot more standing joint locks and joint lock throws, along with some pressure points in some styles, that’s another thing, there are literally hundreds of styles of JJJ>

Post: Tease T Tickle:

BJJ wasn’t spawned from JJJ, per se. BJJ is more consistent with Judo ne waza and many martial historians blame the use of jiu jitsu in Brazil on the fact that for some time, Judo was known as Kano Ju jutsu.

There are a number of different JJJ schools which can have wildly different approaches. Some are so old that all of the techniques are designed with the use of field armor, so throws and the like have slightly different movements that prevent one from falling awkwardly on one’s, say, pauldron (whatever the Japanese equivalent is). Some schools of JJJ use a lot more striking than others. It’s really quite difficult to state what JJJ is like because each school will have a different approach.

Judo, on the other hand, really only has a small amount of different schools which don’t vary quite as much. The real differences between the schools are how much they focus on Kano’s original curriculum and how much stock they put in competition. As a result, certain techniques will be omitted or added to a specific Judo school because of the division between tradition and what works. Furthermore solidifying the differences between Judo and JJJ is the fact that Kano wanted a style of grappling that couldn’t be used by hooligans and ruffians, so many throws were designed to place the thrown on their back rather than battlefield JJJ styles which could end throws with the thrown breaking his neck or landing on his skull.

BJJ, GJJ, et Al (the Brazilians come up with a new “jiu jitsu” just about every year) are essentially an old form of Judo with everything except the groundwork removed. Over the recent years of MMA success, wrestling techniques to get easier takedowns have been added: double leg, single leg, ankle picks, etc. that we see just about every time a grappler gets on a mat. The real emergence of BJJ, according to legend, is when Helio Gracie (a sickly child, and weak) showed his family of grapplers that he could beat them with his modified techniques.

So, your question, what’s the difference between BJJ and JJJ is answered by saying that, “BJJ is at least two generations away from JJJ with the focus on defeating your opponent diminished and replaced with executing techniques that are easier for weaker people to use and the goal of not necessarily hurting your opponent more than is needed.” The difference between BJJ and JJJ is one of ‘sophistication’ in a manner of speaking.>

Post: setsu nin to:

There are many different styles of Japanese Jujutsu schools, they are call ryuha. Each ryuha is different, so in my oppinion its realy hard to talk generaly about technical aspect of them, some have more katame waza (grappling techniques), some have more atemi waza (striking techniques), some have similar techniques some have totaly different techniques… so there is no rule. Also when you see word jujutsu in name of some JJJ school it doesnt mean that these school teach just unurmed combat, for example in Takenouchi-ryu Jujutsu you will also learn kenjutsu and iaijutsu, bojutsu, tessenjutsu, naginatajutsu…, but same for example in Kashima Shinryu Kenjutsu you will learn jujutsu too.

Brazilian Jiu Jitsu wasnt developed directly from Japanese Jujutsu, it was developed from Judo and Judo was developed from Japanese Jujutsu. BJJ is realy similar to Judo. Actualy there is no proof that Esai Maeda (Conde Koma) ever learn any Japanese Jujutsu style, he learned Judo and the knowledge that he give to Gracies was Judo not Jujutsu.

Now the difference…
Same as there are many styles of Japanese Jujutsu there are more styles of Judo, as Kodokan Judo, Olympic Judo, Kyohan Judo, Kosen Judo, Brazilian Jiu Jitsu. So Brazilian Jiu Jitsu would be style of Judo.>

Post: buicken:

here is a possible reason for the development of bjj:
SHEMALES
Not that i would look at such things, but brazil seems to have an huge # of she- males. So imagine a country where you do not know what you are “getting into” you are in a prone position, arms and legs enwraped, one body on top of the other,then whamo,the big suprise!!!. Most strong males would be able to push the she-male off, but if you smaller and weaker, bad things could happen. It seems a martial art would be needed to defend against this situation.
Enter young Mr. Helio.
By the amount of children spawned, it can be assumed that Helio’s sex drive is quite active. I believe that after one to many drinks, Helio found himself in such a position. Mounted by the some what attractive “woman” he discovered… MR WINKY. Horrified yet unable to do anything, he was taken advantage of, many times. Thus was born the seeds of bjj. Young Helio then adapted juijitsu to fit his needs. After many years of trial and error, and a very sore bottom, bjj as we know it, was born.>

Post: :

Troll or not; that was pretty fucking funny!>

Post: NonSolus:

LMFAO!!!!!!>

Post: Twitch:

[quote=buicken here is a possible reason for the development of bjj:
SHEMALES
Not that i would look at such things, but brazil seems to have an huge # of she- males. So imagine a country where you do not know what you are “getting into” you are in a prone position, arms and legs enwraped, one body on top of the other,then whamo,the big suprise!!!. Most strong males would be able to push the she-male off, but if you smaller and weaker, bad things could happen. It seems a martial art would be needed to defend against this situation.
Enter young Mr. Helio.
By the amount of children spawned, it can be assumed that Helio’s sex drive is quite active. I believe that after one to many drinks, Helio found himself in such a position. Mounted by the some what attractive “woman” he discovered… MR WINKY. Horrified yet unable to do anything, he was taken advantage of, many times. Thus was born the seeds of bjj. Young Helio then adapted juijitsu to fit his needs. After many years of trial and error, and a very sore bottom, bjj as we know it, was born.[/quote 

<collapses into respiratory edema from hard laughter>>

Post: ninja_claws:

LMAO!!!!!
rich man
rich>

Post: zefff:

I didnt find it amusing at all. Just spiteful.>

Post: JH:

[quote=zefff I didnt find it amusing at all. Just spiteful.[/quote 
I agree. And if you’re gonna make jokes about BJJ please don’t do gay jokes, try to be a little original.>

Post: Twitch:

[quote=JH [quote=zefff I didnt find it amusing at all. Just spiteful.[/quote 
I agree. And if you’re gonna make jokes about BJJ please don’t do gay jokes, try to be a little original.[/quote 

That’s the best part about grappling jokes, but okay.

I did actually notice something (and I guess I finally get to input something useful :D), that I have seen a few Brazilian Jiu Jitsu pratitioners use some regular Jujutsu moves, just not standing up. The lagistics (sp?) were the only thing of significance.>

Post: buicken:

having an encounter with a she-male doesn’t mean you are gay. lighten up a bit fellows, experiment! having an encounter with a she-male just means you’ve met my girlfriend.>

Post: GrappleToWin:

lol>

Post: zefff:

yawn :roll:>

Post: NonSolus:

Seriously, that WAS funny folks…:-)>

Post: Hengest:

Whether buicken’s remarks were funny or not, does not require an entire thread. Either get this discussion back on track, or don’t post people.>

Post: samurai6string:

I think that ol Triple T gave an excellent answer to the question. The only thing that I would add as being a difference of Judo, which he correctly points out as the father of BJJ, is that Kano also designed/collected the techniques used in Judo around the idea that he wanted a system which could be practiced between uki and tori without causing serious injury, and allowed for safer competition. Let’s not forget that up to Kano’s time it wasn’t uncommon for participants in jujitsu “tournaments” to be fatally wounded or maimed. I think a simple way to state it is that BJJ is intended to win in a rules oriented competition situation, where as traditional Ryus are geared towards self defense.>

Post: Hengest:

[quote=samurai6string I think a simple way to state it is that BJJ is intended to win in a rules oriented competition situation, where as traditional Ryus are geared towards self defense.[/quote 

Absolutely. A very succinct way of putting it. I think we could go one step further and say that the JJJ schools have only recently become self-defence arts in the way the term is used today. Originally, many ryuha were training for all-out war. The unarmed section of the curriculum, if there even was one, was often last ditch survival methods when you’d lost your weapons. Most jujutsu ryuha concentrated on CQB with wakizashi, tanto and various other wicked, pointy weapons.>

Post: samurai6string:

another good point Hengest, I can’t remember which Ryu it is but one of the more interesting to me was the idea of samurai learning to grapple using the natural handholds found in the edges and creases of armor.>

Post: Bushi:

[quote=samurai6string another good point Hengest, I can’t remember which Ryu it is but one of the more interesting to me was the idea of samurai learning to grapple using the natural handholds found in the edges and creases of armor.[/quote 

Kito ryu does that.>

Post: samurai6string:

good lookin’ out there Bushi, I would have never remembered that>

Post: Hengest:

[quote=samurai6string another good point Hengest, I can’t remember which Ryu it is but one of the more interesting to me was the idea of samurai learning to grapple using the natural handholds found in the edges and creases of armor.[/quote 

In JJJ’s early history, there were many that did this. It’s usually called yoroi kumiuchi and, as Bushi pointed out, Kito Ryu is probably one of the most famous for doing it. Ironically, this ryuha was one of the biggest influences on Kano Jigoro’s judo.>

Post: samurai6string:

do any of you study jujitsu? if so which Ryu? I study Kodenkan Danzan Ryu ala Prof. Wally Jay.>

Post: titoliddell:

When I started going to my class we did both, and we just do BJJ now. I,ve done competition in both and BJJ comps are a lot more challenging.
I tapped a black belt in JJJ when I was 12. And I had only been doing it for a couple of months. So I think that BJJ is way better.>

Post: opariser1001:

[quote=titoliddell When I started going to my class we did both, and we just do BJJ now. I,ve done competition in both and BJJ comps are a lot more challenging.
I tapped a black belt in JJJ when I was 12. And I had only been doing it for a couple of months. So I think that BJJ is way better.[/quote 

one time when i was in the womb i knocked out a muay thai fighter. muay thai sucks!!>

Post: …formless…:

LOL Jesus that guy is ugly! Like the dude Panta had for his avatar…but somehow even worse.

THEY SEE ME ROLLIN

:lol:>

Post: Hengest:

[quote=titoliddell When I started going to my class we did both, and we just do BJJ now. I,ve done competition in both and BJJ comps are a lot more challenging.
I tapped a black belt in JJJ when I was 12. And I had only been doing it for a couple of months. So I think that BJJ is way better.[/quote 

You. Fucking. Moron.>

Post: Bushi:

Check out this article:

http://www.grapplearts.com/Submission-Grappling-vs-ju-jutsu.htm>

Post: Hengest:

That’s a pretty interesting article, well written, but it still seems to treat jujutsu as a single style, which couldn’t be further from the truth and only serves to encourage dumb threads like this one.

The variation between jujutsu ryuha is massive, just as huge as the differences between kung fu schools. Comparing BJJ or submission grappling to JJJ is like saying “which is better, an Audi A4 or every single Japanese saloon ever made?”>

Post: Bushi:

I couldn’t agree with you more, but I think that Stephan Kesting did a good job explaining the emphasis differences even though lumping all JJJ together.>

Post: Hengest:

Very true mate. I don’t mean to belittle the attempt. It is still an interesting article.>

Post: samurai6string:

I think it all falls under the tried and true addage, “there is no superior martial art, only superior martial artists.” :lol: /cliche factory off.>

Post: Bushi:

I think certain MAs are better than others for certain things. For instance, if a sysytem does not address a certain aspect of combat, then one that does address that aspect is better. All MAs were not created equally. I would not go to Tae Kwon Do to learn Knife fighting and I wouldn’t go to Arnis to learn how to throw a spinning hook kick.

Just common sense IMO.>

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