Kesa Gatame vs modified scarf control

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Kesa Gatame vs modified scarf control
Original Poster: BLACK PANTA
Forum: Grappling & Jiu-Jitsu
Posted On: 02-03-2005, 14:38

Orginal Post: BLACK PANTA: I know I spelled kesa Gatame wrong but what can you do. But wich do y’all prefer. What do you find more useful to you. I personally like Kesa Gatame. I know the modified scarf control is great for….well…..control but as far as I know it doesn’t have as many openings for submissions as Kesa Gatame. Yes with Kesa, you possibly give up your back, but like bamboo said if you have it on properly and know what to look for , it’ll be damn hard for your opponent to get your back. I find it easier aswell to transition to north south from Kesa. Look foreward to hearing you points.

Post: bamboo:

Do you mean the difference between kesa gatame (scarf hold), gyaku kesa gatame (reverse scarf hold) and kuzure kesa gatame (broken scarf hold)?

When dragged to the ground after a poorly executed irimi nage, I usually find myself on top and in good position for kesa gatame because of previous hand placement and throwing position, thus, I do infact prefer a normal scarf hold.

The throw:

After being dragged down you can see how kesa gatame is in place:

The standing body position is quite close to the ground position IMHO.

cheers,
bamboo>

Post: setsu nin to:

OK, I am confused now…

I get Kesa Gatame, but I have problem with modified scarf control and broken scarf hold. Arent these two diferent translations of Kuzure Kesa Gatame?>

Post: MrApollinax:

you are correct setsu, they are two names for the same term.

As far as which one I prefer, it depends on the situation. I may find that kuzure kesa gatame is easier to obtain due to the positioning. In other situations like bamboo’s above kesa gatame is just the natural position you end up in when you are taken down.>

Post: BLACK PANTA:

Now these are aikido takedown you are speaking of? Cus the wrestling takedowns and such, man you can end up anywhere. The kesa shown in the second pic, looks very unstable to me. His legs are dangeling way to close to the pinned opponent. That can be hooked and he would loose his position. The way I was taught to do Kesa gatame is to have (using the pic) his right knee higher, right by the pinned opponent’s head, and my right hand gripping my right knee. My head would be waay lower aswell.

The modified scarf hold is like this (using second pic again), same body position, however instead of the right hand over the pinned opponent’s shoulder, it is under the shoulder (underhooks)>

Post: MrApollinax:

i usually grab onto the shoulder instead of my knee in case i want to swing that leg out to move for a sub. See this pic for clarification:

http://judoinfo.com/images/osaekomi/hon_kesa_gatame.gif

or this:

Modified scarf hold/broken scarf hold/Kuzure Kesa Gatame is where instead of wraping your arm behind the neck and grabing the near side shoulder or your own knee your arm is under the far side arm with the hand face down on the mat or grabing the far side shoulder.

or

http://judoinfo.com/images/osaekomi/kuzure_kesa_gatame.gif

I’m curious as to why you grip your right knee as opposed to the opponent’s shoulder? It seems that you would be able to generate more weight by pulling yourself onto the opponent than yourself. I can see how your way might make it easier to transition to NS position since you are so high on the opponent.>

Post: BLACK PANTA:

Oh I forgot to mention, this in no gi I’m talking about. my bad :oops:>

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