WRESTLING HINTS, TIPS, AND TRICKS: Old Forum Topic

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WRESTLING HINTS, TIPS, AND TRICKS: Old Forum Topic
Original Poster: setsu nin to
Forum: Grappling & Jiu-Jitsu
Posted On: 13-12-2005, 07:22

Orginal Post: setsu nin to: WRESTLING HINTS, TIPS, AND TRICKS

PULL:
which style do you do (GRECKO OR FREESTYLE)
grecko 10% [ 2  
Freestlye 89% [ 17  
Total Votes : 19
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ICEZ
Hey guys, i’ve been Wrestling now for 4 years i have started this thread to help you out with any thing you need, answer questions that you might have about training, skills moves, etc, i can also give you hints with moves, first tournaments, training, week spots, how to confuse your opponent, and how to read his body language.

how you enjoy this and i will be able to answer any questions you have.

peace
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Draven
In general freestyle rules, what would be the best counter for a dirt-ride?

The best one I can think of is just to pull his arm back through your legs with both hands and secure an armbar… but that’s unheard of in freestyle wrestling.
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CreepingDeth
What the hell is a dirt-ride?

Anyway, I always wondered, what if I knew a good lot of jujisu or judo….. would I kick serious ass in wrestling.
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THE GZA
Possibly, depending on the type of wrestling to do, I could see a judo person being great in everything, but a jujitsu lock arent allowed in folkstyle wrestling… I know thats a broad example…

I’d say the most important single skill in wrestling is balance, work on that and you’ll be great
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ICEZ
DRAVEN: ok dirt-ride i’ve never herd of that one, but if your talking about what i’m thinking you are, that is one of the best ways but you could also, lock his arm in yours and work your way into a head and arm throw for 3 point.

CreepingDeth: as with matial arts wrestling is intense between 4-6 mintues of non-stop grapling, judo doesn’t really have much ground work in it. the main thing is wrestling is alot of gound work and alot of training in it. if you are looking for a good challenge then yes, but remember Wrestling is intense.

THE GZA: i beg to differ on your point there. yes balence is important but you also must have atleast 5 moves in your head before you step on the mat, speed, defence, and offence is VERY important when you step on the mat. seeing your self after you see soo many things that you could have done. as i said be fore Balence is not every thing but it is a big thing. oh ya being atleat 1-2 steps ahead of your oppnent helps out a lot too.
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ICEZ
ok come on don’t tell me that only 4 people wrestle on here.
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Taoist
where i live there is an old stadium that is called the coloseum , right now theres a competition that goes on there called the SFC ( submission fight championship ) there are different weight classes , so far i havent lost in the 150 to 190 class but i have a huge amount of moves at my disposal , only problem is i lack strentgh most ppl break right out of my holds ( however im quick enough to put them right back into a different one causing them to run out of steam before me )

so my question is , what would be the overall best exercises for strength in wrestling , im afraid that if someone out last me in endurance then im finished .
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Eric Stetson
I don’t do greco or freestyle. I do folk, or otherwise known as “amatuer” style. Greco is too boring for me with only moves s to the upperbody allowed, and freestyle I just plain haven’t gotten into…yet.
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ICEZ
quote:

Originally posted by Eric Stetson
I don’t do greco or freestyle. I do folk, or otherwise known as “amatuer” style. Greco is too boring for me with only moves s to the upperbody allowed, and freestyle I just plain haven’t gotten into…yet.

freestyle is “AMATURE” it’s just said under adifferent name. the things you see on T.V. such as the W.W.E. is compleat fake bull shiznit.

taoist_priest:
“what would be the overall best exercises for strength in wrestling , im afraid that if someone out last me in endurance then im finished .”

necks, upper body, lower body? which are you trying inprove?

NECKS: lie down flat on your back with your palms on the ground. lift your head and rotate your head 10 times to the right, then 10 times to the left. then touch your left ear to your left shoulder (10 times), then right ear to right shoulder (10 times). lastly touch your chin to your chest (10 times). while you are doing this NEVER NEVER LET YOUR HEAD TOUCH THE GROUND. when you feel the need for a challange incress the amount of times you do your roations and so on by 5.

UPPER BODY: you can do weights hevey reps long time to light weight long time too. chrunches, push ups, sit-ups, wrestle people who are in a heaver weight class then you.

LOWER BODY: running (2.4km or 24 laps around a gym) stairs (15 sets), weightes again.

Manly work your self to the limit and back again, then the next time you go again push your self even harder then before.
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AlexFitNut
I just tried out that neck exercise you recommended, and that’s suprisingly hard. How often do you do those?
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Taoist
quote:

Originally posted by ICEZ

taoist_priest:
“what would be the overall best exercises for strength in wrestling , im afraid that if someone out last me in endurance then im finished .”

necks, upper body, lower body? which are you trying inprove?

i was just wanting to know a few strength exercises that would help add pressure to holds like arm bars and stuff , bigger guys can usually get out of it with brute strength .

you know , like a deadlift is supposed to be a overall power builder for the whole body , i have never done deadlifts as i am cautious of heavy weight, but if i hear a few ppls opinions on deadlifts and other exercises that work in the same manner , people that have actually done them , and believe they are good for wrestling , then i will do them
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AlexFitNut
I too am weary of doing really heavy wieght, and I feel you can get better results for strength and muscle endurance by working out single muscle groups with average wieght doing 12-15 reps. My arms are my strongest body part, and I have never lost an arm wrestling match no matter what size the guy was, and I’m only 5’10 165. I contribute this to strong hands and forearms. If you have a really strong grip, you’re going to be able to stay in control better. My advice is to strenghten those areas and see if that helps because if you’re getting into position, you just need to be able to hold it. I watched a guy today on a video get out of a headlock using his hands, then choke the guy out with the guys own arm. It was all done with his hands.
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ICEZ
quote:

Originally posted by TylerDurdan
I just tried out that neck exercise you recommended, and that’s suprisingly hard. How often do you do those?

i do 20 every night and every morning. and during pratice i’m pushing 30 soon. doing these you will improve your neck muscales and be able to “bridge” longer and better then before. with your neck you’ll be able to bridge with your weight and your oppenent on your neck. i remember when i had to pratice with a guy who was 240 lbs and i was about 150lbs. now thats 390lbs on my neck only. you’ll be able to do that too.

taoist_priest: use your opponents strength and weight against them. use mjor presure points. sides,hips,neck, leg, and their are many others that you can use, use their body to your advantage and try doing what i posted before. what i do during pratice is that i go form the heavest person (about 250lbs) to the lightest (about 100lbs) gives you one hell of a rush and endurance.
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THE GZA
I’d say upperbody strength is more important than lower body

Another thing that you NEED to be great- endurance (goin six minutes isnt that easy)

I do folkstyle
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ICEZ
quote:

Originally posted by THE GZA
I’d say upperbody strength is more important than lower body

Another thing that you NEED to be great- endurance (goin six minutes isnt that easy)

hmmmmm where do i start:
“strength is more important than lower body”

ok you have me in a single leg take down what are you going to do
try to muscle my leg up to where you want it or get your ass low and lift it using your legs. ones going to be a lot easier to get then the other, and you won’t mess up your back using your lower body to get my leg. there are about 10 things i could do to you when your trying to muscle me leg there bud.
lower body is much more important then strength
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THE GZA
Upper body is so much more important than lower body strength

Everything you do in wrestling is coming from the upper body at all times, you only use lower body in half the stuff you do(takedowns-maybe you mean lower body is most important because takedowns score the most points)

everyone is strong enough in the lower body for that anyway when they come in, upperbody is whats needed to be worked on…

If people are getting out of your moves, upperbody is the reason, there isn’t a move in wrestling that dosen’t require upper body strength, lower body is only needed in a few…
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ICEZ

ok how about this then if your ever in my area we’ll have a match and see about it.

on some points your correct but on most your incorrect. yes upperbody strength is important but where would you be with out lower body strength. no where, it’s a combination of both that you need ot master the skill.

and i’m just wondering how long have you been WRESTLING for?

FYI: (for your information) takedowns are not always the most scored on moves. ” escapes, reversals,control One Point, shoulders go over 90 degrees, bringing your opponnet to the ground not in to a pin posstion Two Points, bringing your oppenet for a standing psotion to a pin posstion, most throws Three Points. opponents feet goes over their head while you are in control (one type) Five Points” i’ve read the rule book like 6 times i know it inside and out.
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THE GZA
You talking about freestyle? That would explain it since alot of freestyle (or greco i think) is throws, I can see where your coming from I was talking about folkstyle… but I still think most wrestling is done with the upper body
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AlexFitNut
GZA I’m curious how long you’ve wrestled, what your martial art history is, and what you do now just out of curiosity.
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THE GZA
I wrestled some in gradeschool, and two years out of highschool..(I did well for the two years I did though, I won a few tournaments..)

I took TKD up to Orange belt, learned some Muay Thai from a kid I know, I do streetfight sometimes, I box but not at a gym just whenever I get the chance(alot), And most of the stuff I know from other styles(Techniques) comes from books, webpages, seminars, and you guys, though I’ve never taken any classes of any other than training with people I know…

Currently I’m not doing anythin, but I’m gonna be taking Shotokan here this week, and I’m looking for a Lua class to study but I’m not gonna find one…

Not much traditional training, but I’ve learned alot from the stuff I did…
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ICEZ
ok guys enough with the childish argumente here ok. the topic here is Wrestling HINTS TIPS AND TRICKS ok we’re not here to inslut everyone ok.
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ICEZ
you got to be kidding me…. come on some one must need some help some where even from stretching to techincal moves thats why i started this topic.
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WrestlerX
My suggestion is not to post advice on here when you don’t know what you are talking about the GZA. Legs are much more important in all forms of grappling than upper body….. especially amatuer wrestling. All ground moves you use your legs to drive, stand up you use legs and hips to throw and take down, upper body is only used for locks you need to do and it doesnt take much strength. However it is advisable that you are strong in both to overwlhelm your opponent but lower body is much much more important. OK ICEZ I have a question for you……… What style of wrestling would you think is the most effective in a street situation…. I think free-style by far because anything goes, you can go upper body, lower body, and throw your opponent more effectively for the situation than the others.
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THE GZA
Grappling by definition almost has to be done by the arms; we don’t have opposably toes after-all. How can you say otherwise?
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WrestlerX
Because all of the lifts, take downs, shots, etc are executed by mostly using the legs and core. Think of it this way, from what you know of wrestling, have you ever seen a move executed by one person lifting up their opponent with just the arms? They use their legs, the arms just hold the person close to the body. That’s the best I can explain it without getting into too much detail.
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THE GZA
Ah I see. Technique coming from the hips. Well throwing moves utilize the upper-body more. When you are in control it switches over to upper-body being more important too, (by control: one on one, or two on one). I see what you are talking about, I’m not sure to the actual amount of moves either of our idea’s encompass. Both of us could be seen as right here in a sense.
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WrestlerX
I suppose in a sense. It also depends on what kind of wrestler you are and what kind of moves you like to do. For instance upper body is used more in greco-roman wrestling than in freestyle.
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ICEZ
I still say that legs are MUCH more important then arms, and most throws can be exicuted from a kneeling postion
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WrestlerX
Hey ICEZ lets get this thread up and running again…. it was dead for so long. I have quite a bit of wrestling experience so I can help out too….. anyone wioth questions about wrestling or concerns whatever, maybe even just grappling in general, I have experience in submission wrestling too so ask away. ICEZ you never answered my question, as far as amateur wrestling goes, what do you think is the most affective style for fights? I think freestyle.
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Arjun
Can i get someone to give some instructions or a place where i can get instructions on some of the more effective wrestling techniques.

I only get to train with another untrained wrestling partner. Usually we just end up rolling around try to put each other in head locks. We usually resort to attacking pressure points because we dont know any good holds or techniques.
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WrestlerX
Do you mean on the internet? If so I don’t know of many, besides I highly disagree with learning techniques over the internet. The only way you will learn quality moves especially in any kind of wrestling is to be taught by someone who knows what they are doing. I guess you have to find a good wrestler to train with or join a club near you.
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Arjun
Yes i mean on the internet. I know it would be thousands of times better to have an instructor, but the thing is i dont. And there are no schools around here. So, some simple techniques and holds i can practice and maybe become adequate at home with is better than nothing, right?
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THE GZA
http://home.earthlink.net/~jman777/catch.html

Someone posted this before, it’s Catch wrestling.
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ICEZ
What moves are you having the most trouble with, Focous on those then move ont eh harder and fanzyer moves later. don’t try to do the flips and throws untill you have the basics down. singles, doubles, leg rides, ankel rides, gut wrentchs etc. don’t go for the 5 point stuff yet wait till you have the baiscs down theres no point in trying the hard shiznit right away you’ll hurt yourself way to fast and you’ll be sorry.
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Arjun
Im trying to learn the basics, and stay away from the fancy shite, atleast for now. Im finding it harder to learn this stuff on my own.

Thanks GZA, thats a good site, though i wish there were some pictures to refer to.
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WrestlerX
http://www.lesgutches.com/
– go to techniques and pick one
Thats all i can find right now, i know of this one site thats really good and has alot of moves on it. I will find out and post it later hopefully.
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THE GZA
Most libraries have an excess of good wrestling books, because it is the only MA taught in every highschool in the country. Try there.

I posted this somewhere else, (I hope not in this thread already.) But takedowns such as the single and double leg have to be very well timed in a real fight, more-so than in a match, because of knees to the face and such. Do some slapping and light kicks in your grappling match to simulate this. Throws are better, and that is why a bigger person is better at grappling. Work on your go behinds most of all, since you are short, I’d say. Do work the basics first, but it is the big stuff that is what you are gonna need to be able to do, (firemens, throws, snaps, shucks).

Man, I wanna take Judo now.
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THE GZA
And, basically, you will need another person so you can learn to apply this stuff. Ask one of your wing chun buddies to spar after class, and throw some of it in maybe. You can only do form when you’re alone.
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ICEZ
what ascpect are you having the MOST TROUBLE WITH it would be a big help so i can narrow down what you can do and what to work on most ok?
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ICEZ
Right now The best advice I can Give anyone, (after placing 2nd, and 3rd in provincals) would be to practice the moves you know, master them, continue to do so untill you can do them blindfolded, if you can not do them blind folded then you will have a major hard time doing them in a match.

Don’t try to Muscial your way into winning, you’ll use up valuble energy way to fast if you do so, TECHNIQUE, SPEED, will prevale over muscial,

Stretch Before AND AFTER your Match, you don’t want to do in a match feeling all stiff.

Post if you Need Any Hint/Tips/Tricks For Wrestling of anykind
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ICEZ
New Wrestling season starts and a new team also, any one who needs any tips post here, more then willing to help
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-=KING UMY=-
what are your favourite holds? and what holds do you find most effective and easy to apply?

thanks
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ICEZ
my personal favorate is the head and arm choke hold, then dubble, under hook, arm bar, leg ride. easiest would be the Head and arm choke hold for me. i love that hold no one has gotten out of that one when i put it on them. and nothing beats the look on their face when your constantly puching their arm into their neck..

so effective
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-=KING UMY=-
ill have to try that sometime
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thebgbb
quote:

Originally posted by king umy
what are your favourite holds? and what holds do you find most effective and easy to apply?

thanks

I was a leg rider when I wrestled, so my favorite holds were the 3 big holds from the leg ride, i.e., the High Turk, the Guillotine (In wrestling, a Guillotine is a hold that twists the back, not a choke), and the banana split. I also liked cranking my High Turks into a head and arm choke with the leg.

Another good one was the single arm-bar to half nelson combination. This was an easy pin if you could apply it well. After driving them to the mat (through an arm-crush, ankle pick, or elbow drive), establish a back mount. An arm will usually post up when they try to get back up to their knees. When it does, slip in an armbar and pull it across to get their hand behind their back. Be careful to keep the wrist in the small of their back and not higher or you’ll get called for chicken-winging them. Anyway, the only thing that they have left to push up with is the other hand. Now, while holding the wrist behind their back with your corresponding hand (left on left or right on right), plpant your other forearm into the back of their neck and start driving them in the direction of the arm-barred arm. This will start the roll, but more importantly it will drive their face across the mat. The only way to get out of this is to push up with the free hand. When they do, **BAM**, slam in that half nelson from that side and start driving it home. If you sink the half in deep enough, there is no escape because you still have their other hand held behind their back. Once you get them over, plant your foot for leverage, and pull that half nelson up to get a good neck crank. Now you just wait for the ref to feel their shoulder-blades.

The “weapon of choice” depends on the opponent. If you are against a real fish, you can have fun and work some really crazy stuff. If you are up against a solid wrestler, though, you should stick to the basics.
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thebgbb
quote:

Originally posted by WrestlerX
http://www.lesgutches.com/
– go to techniques and pick one
Thats all i can find right now, i know of this one site thats really good and has alot of moves on it. I will find out and post it later hopefully.

This is a fantastic wrestling technique website! It really takes you though the proper techniques. I’m going to post it on the Martial Arts links thread.
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ICEZ
Now well into the new season my most efective moves would be the Leg Ride, and the now illgal German Cross. most effective pinning combination,? uhhhh. Fake head and arm throw into a single leg and then go for a head and arm choke hold.
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Post: Unkokusai:

“CreepingDeth

Anyway, I always wondered, what if I knew a good lot of jujisu or judo….. would I kick serious ass in wrestling. “

I have not found that to be the case>

Post: Unkokusai:

“Hey guys, i’ve been Wrestling now for 4 years i have started this thread to help you out with any thing you need, answer questions that you might have about training, skills moves, etc, i can also give you hints with moves, first tournaments, training, week spots, how to confuse your opponent, and how to read his body language. “

Are you sure 4 years is enough to be ‘advising’ people? :|>

Post: Unkokusai:

“THE GZA
Upper body is so much more important than lower body strength

Everything you do in wrestling is coming from the upper body at all times, you only use lower body in half the stuff you do(takedowns-maybe you mean lower body is most important because takedowns score the most points)

everyone is strong enough in the lower body for that anyway when they come in, upperbody is whats needed to be worked on…

If people are getting out of your moves, upperbody is the reason, there isn’t a move in wrestling that dosen’t require upper body strength, lower body is only needed in a few…”

This is simply untrue!>

Post: Unkokusai:

“Well throwing moves utilize the upper-body more.”

Not so.>

Post: Umy:

Are you sure 4 years is enough to be ‘advising’ people?

Why not? is it not right to pass on any information you have picked up to others just because you havent been studying an art for 10 years?

We can all learn from each other whether we are talking to a novice or a master.

This is a forum where we can all learn from each other, I feel Q&A threads like these are among the best because any specific question you have in your mind about the art the topic is about can be answered by people who practice that art and understand it more than most.

I take my hat off (not that im wearing one :P ) to people like ICEZ who are willing to sit here and answer anything you want to know in detail (even though this is an old thread).

Also the replies you have come up with so far have been outstanding:

This is simply untrue!

Not so.

I have not found that to be the case

All you have done is totally disagree with what everyone has said without even arguing your point.

Sorry if I sounded harsh but I dont like it when someone helps around the site and people start criticising.>

Post: Unkokusai:

Are you sure 4 years is enough to be ‘advising’ people?

“Why not? is it not right to pass on any information you have picked up to others just because you havent been studying an art for 10 years?”

“We can all learn from each other whether we are talking to a novice or a master.”

Sure, no reason not to share. But I know I would think twice about setting myself up as an ‘expert’ dispensing wisdom on anything I had only done for 4 years.

“Also the replies you have come up with so far have been outstanding:

All you have done is totally disagree with what everyone has said without even arguing your point.”

See, I’m not trying to ‘improve’ anyone. Just giving my two bits. Take it or leave it.

“Sorry if I sounded harsh”

You didn’t sound harsh, you sounded petulant.>

Post: Umy:

no-one said anything about being an expert, also sorry if I offended you in any way im not really here to argue bro>

Post: Unkokusai:

“no-one said anything about being an expert, also sorry if I offended you in any way im not really here to argue bro”

s’cool>

Post: The Wrestler:

well, I do agree with the whole thing about helping eachother out and stuff, but on the other hand, I have been wrestling for about 6 years now and I dont even consider myself even close to being able to open up my own forum and answer anyones question. I still simply dont know enough to answer every question. But thats just IMHO. Though if any of you asked me a question I would be more then happy to try and answer it.>

Post: kranker66:

- Hi guys. I don’t wrestle or do BJJ, but I wanted to ask the Grappling and Wrestling community what are some of the first things taught, stuff that you started learning when you first started?

-I’m seriously thinking of starting BJJ this Summer, so I need to get some input of what I could expect to be learning in the first 3 months say?

-Some of the basics of the guard or the mount maybe?

Thanks again,
–Cheers.

ps:( don’t worry if you have only being doin’ it for a short time any info can help.)>

Post: Unkokusai:

[quote=The Wrestler well, I do agree with the whole thing about helping eachother out and stuff, but on the other hand, I have been wrestling for about 6 years now and I dont even consider myself even close to being able to open up my own forum and answer anyones question. .[/quote 

That’s kinda what I meant.>

Post: The Wrestler:

kranker, I first learned things like my stance and certain positioning, which is expecially important in grappling. You then learn how to take shots (going for the legs for the takedown) and defend against them, the most basic way to defend is a sprawl. Along the way you will learn more advanced, “cool looking”, though devasting, things like throws and takedowns right from the feet, which what I use for self defense situations. Well, I have yet to get an actual throw in a fight lol. If you want I could give you some tips to tweak up your technique, like certain head and hand positioning which is essential in wrestling because they are your first line of defense. Hope this helped a little ;)>

Post: kranker66:

‘Wrestler’
– Hey that’s great!…That’s the kind of info I’m looking for.

-I do have a question for you though, when you shoot for someone’s legs
how do you avoid from getting hit with an uppercut or knee to the face area?
It looks to me like a Wrestler or Grappler would be totally vulnerable at that moment.

Cheers :D>

Post: The Wrestler:

Well kranker, I dont know if your just being an ass or are totally serious. But I was telling you moves you would do in a tournament, but unless the situation was right, and it definitly has to be the perfect situation, I would never ever shoot in for someones legs in a street fight. I would do whats called “closing the gap”. Thats when the wrestler goes in close to set up a upperbody take down, when in this position, it takes away most of a strikers moves, like kicking and punching and other fancy stuff, except kneeing, but wrestler can also knee people ;), but in reality, a good trained wrestler would never even give the stiker the chance to knee him, and its hard as hell to try and overpower a wrestler from that position, even if the opponent is a another grappler. Once the takedown is complete, wrestlers are known for their infamous “grapple and pummel”.
Whatever, I have said enough :roll:>

Post: kranker66:

‘Wrestler’
– I was asking a question about more of what’s being taught when you begin training in your sport in the gym, not so much a tournment. And the ‘shooting-in’ question was just an after thought question, but I was being honest and serious about it. :roll:>

Post: samurai6string:

RESURECTION!!!!

I had fun answering an earlier wrestling related question. I’m resurecting this thread and offering my humble services to answer any wrestling related questions to the absolute best of my abilities, so bring ‘em on. :)>

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