anyone heard of these styles?

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anyone heard of these styles?
Original Poster: Fa Jing
Forum: Japanese Martial Arts
Posted On: 01-07-2004, 21:19

Orginal Post: Fa Jing: Motobu-Ha Shito Ryu karate and Hakkoryu Ju-Jitsu

I heard that Motobu is alot like kempo but im not sure and that Hakkoryu is alot like Aikijujitsu. If anyone has expierence in these arts or has knowledge of them a little help would be apprechiated.

Got them from this website, http://www.shihokarano.com/styles.htm
im training in that starting next sunday so i would just like some expierenced info and opinons not just what the instructors and websites say.

Post: Wilhelm von Wänkensteïn:

Motobu-ryu was the ancient bujutsu of the Okinawan royal family, and it has more in common with samurai bujutsu than the ryukyu kenpo (later known as karate) practiced by the common people. In particular, it has a full syllabus of weapons training, has no kata in its original form and it is very much an aiki bujutsu – lots of locks, throws, holds etc. using an opponent’s momentum and strength against him. I haven’t time to look at the site right now, but this Motobu-ha Shito-ryu karate sounds like a composite school combining Motobu-ryu and Shito-ryu (duh :P ). I don’t know if things have changed since, but outside of the Motobu family itself, there’s only one legitimate instructor of the style whose name I forget but would probably remember if I saw it. Maybe we should ask Hengest?

As for Hakko-ryu, it is a gendai jujutsu style with a lot of aikido influence. I still have the book on my shelf back home across the sea somewhere, but I remember most of it. Essentially, it strikes me as a retraditionalised aikido style. Hakkoryu gave birth to styles like Danzan-ryu jujutsu and Wally Jay’s Small-Circle style (though one couldn’t tell from looking at the latter).>

Post: setsu nin to:

Motobu-Ha Shito Ryu Karater Do was founded in second falf of 20th century by Kosei Kokuba who later changed his name to Shogo Kuniba and he is today moust known under that name. Motobu-Ha Shito Ryu Karater Do is actualy mix of many Karate styles as Shito-ryu, Shorin-ryu, Goju-ryu, Ryu-Kyu Motobu-ha karate-do, Kenyu-ryu, Ryuei-ryu…>

Post: setsu nin to:

Oh yes, and about Hakkoryu i dont have nothing to add to Wilhelm von Wänkensteïn post, just to say thatI agree with him that its influenced with Aikido, not Aikijujutsu.>

Post: Fa Jing:

Have either one of you ever studied it? Do you think the combination I have is a good one for all around skill?>

Post: setsu nin to:

Well I never studied any of these two styles. I personaly dont like Karate, there is nothing wrong with it just I dont like it and thats all. Actualy its more that I have many styles on my list before any Karate style. also I was never enought interested in Hakkoryu to join the Dojo.>

Post: Fa Jing:

Did you check out the website Setsu? Do you think its is a good style or a mcdojo?>

Post: setsu nin to:

No, unfortunatly I didnt check site before becouse I know for bouth styles from other resource. But I couldnt belive when I saw these site. We had discousion about these clowns before in old forum. Bamboo and Panta remember it I suppose. They changed some things on the site, but when I saw Sokei photo with his two clowns sons (nidai sokeis if I remember good) I rememberd them and their site.

Well I will answer your question with question.
Do you realy what to learn martial arts from these sokei and his two sons nidai sokeis?>

Post: Fa Jing:

Hell no man i dont want to learn from one of those 3. But my sensai’s skills are great, I mean ive been around long enough to know when a man has had quality training by the way he spars. Let me be the first to tell you, the “soke” DOES NOT reflect the quality of his students. I’ve met 2 sensai from this school and they are superb IMO.>

Post: setsu nin to:

Let me be the first to tell you, the “soke” DOES NOT reflect the quality of his students.

Soke means quality of style, quality of style means quality of techniques. If you have best skills and you dont have good techniques you are 0, nothing, same if you dont have any skill and you have all best technique you are 0, nothing too. When you have developed all skills, when you have exelent, not good techniques, when you know how to use your skills and techniques in best way and when your mind is prepared for combat you MAY win fight. If you dont have all of these and you win in fight its mean that you were lucky and nothing more, but you wont be always lucky.

I personaly would never enter that Dojo, but if you like that Dojo stay there, its your choice, not my.>

Post: Fa Jing:

I stay because its not really a dojo in the traditional sense. There are just a few students and we practice in Sensai Cazzells backyard lol.>

Post: Blade:

Well from what i overheard my instructors talk about they regard Hakko-Ryu as one of the better jujitsu styles, its a Traditional Jujitsu school and is very common in japan no less then Aikido, they emphasize standing up and getting to a situation where you could use locks and such more then other systems which try to force the joint manipulation without preperation.
Shito-Ryu is a traditional Okinawan karate system. both my teacher and his training partner have 3rd Dan in it. from what i understood there is alot of emphasis on kata, around 40 katas overall from what i heard.
this is only what i heard from my instructors, not trying to say its a fact so bare with me hehe.>

Post: bamboo:

Without having seen these people in person I can only pass judgement on one thing…the use of the title soke. I find it very difficult to accept westen heads of families when the style is still very much alive in Japan.
I have read various interviews with true Japanese sokes (such as katsuyuki Konda and various others) and have never heard them refer to themselves as soke nor were they addressed as such. Always “sensei”. My orgs shihan is called sensei, plus the present doshu of aikikai is also called “sensei”, never soke or doshu or Dai-sensei…..

Technique may be supperb, but why a need for big titles?

-bamboo>

Post: Fa Jing:

[quote=bamboo Technique may be supperb, but why a need for big titles?

-bamboo[/quote 

Great question, honestly I have no idea. I have never met this Dr. Reider the so called “soke” and i dont much care to. Sensei has to see him everytime he wants to move up to the next Dan but, if Sensei cant grade me, I dont want that “soke” to either.>

Post: setsu nin to:

Well Katsu Jin Ken if you finde yourself in these style than I can anly whish you good luck and all best! Hope that you will finde there what you are looking for.>

Post: Fa Jing:

after careful consideration, I decided to stop taking classes in this form. The history was just plaguing my mind to much. Instead, I have enrolled in a Moy Yat (sp?) style Wing Chun school.

Thanks again for all the advice/info.

-Katsu>

Post: Gong||Jau:

I hope you enjoy your time in Wing Chun. The most important thing to remember is not to quit when you hit a plateau, no matter how frustrating it may be. Just keep working, go back to the forms and work with your sifu and eventually you’ll find the next mountain to climb.

I think I should warn you, though, that if you’re looking for an art with a bulletproof history you’ve definitely picked the wrong one :mrgreen:.>

Post: Fa Jing:

lol no i dont care about history. Wing Chun atleast isnt an arts some guy made up 20 years ago and put himself as grandmaster.>

Post: setsu nin to:

Wing Chun is exelent martial art, whish you all best! In my opinion you didnt do wrong when you left your old Dojo.>

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