Jeet KEN do?
Original Poster: bamboo
Forum: Japanese Martial Arts
Posted On: 08-06-2004, 22:49
Orginal Post: bamboo: I came across this while surfing an aiki site. They taught Jeet KEN do and gave shodans “renshi” (teaching certificate) which implies a japanese art. I can’t find anithing on this system. Anyone familiar?
Under Magee’s Martial Arts Center:
“Description: A school with a wide variety of styles, including Aikijitsu, Renzoku jiujitsu, Bushido Kempo, Sento jujitsu, ***Jeet KEN do (sword training)***, and anti-terrorism training. Great for NHB/MMA competitors, self-defense, kids, women, the elderly, and others. Instructed by Dennis Magee, 6th dan.”
Can’t find anything conclusive besides that on Google. Perhaps it’s a spelling error?>
I thought it was a spelling error as well, but the person also runs a jeetkunedo association and the vast majority of his instructors from different sites claim both jeet kune and jeet ken do.
Well, putting aside the fact that it’s half Japanese and half Chinese (not sure which dialect :oops:), Jeet Ken Do would be Way of the Intercepting Sword, I believe. It’s also possible that it means something similar in Chinese, though, since apparently the Do (Dao) in JKD is actually Chinese and not Japanese. I think WVW’s help might be necessary with this one.>
Post: setsu nin to:
Where did you finde them bamboo?
It was from a a link that Sheato gave on the Aikijutsu thread.
Quote: Well, putting aside the fact that it’s half Japanese and half Chinese (not sure which dialect ), Jeet Ken Do would be Way of the Intercepting Sword, I believe. It’s also possible that it means something similar in Chinese, though, since apparently the Do (Dao) in JKD is actually Chinese and not Japanese.
It could be a spelling error; they spell aikijutsu and kuk sool won incorrectly I notice. But in light of the actual mention of JKD elsewhere on the site, it does seem unlikely.
I would guess that it’s just some guy has come up with his own sword system and given it this name, murdering both the Chinese and Japanese languages simultaneously. Although “do” in Cantonese is almost the same in Japanese, I doubt that “ken” is the same. I know that the character for “ken” is pronounced “jian” in Mandarin, so I would be surprised if it’s so vastly different in Cantonese.>
No, I believe that this spelling (along with Aikijutsu as opposed to AIkijujitsu) was unintentional. Gary Dill has been featured in a few magazines (not that that proves any legitimacy) and trained with James Lee.
It is, I believe, merely an Oklahoman murdering of a language, and nothing more.
Also, I just saw that it says he has trained in both “Jeet Kune Do” and “Jeet Kendo”.
I’m going to ask a few questions after next practice.>
Hengest: Quite right – ‘Way’ is prounounced almost the same in Cantonese as it is in Japanese – the only main difference is intonation, though it wouldn’t matter, since Japanese is atonal anyway.
‘Sword’, however, is vastly different – ‘gim’ in Cantonese. That, and ‘Intercepting/Severing’ – the ‘Jeet’ in Jeet Kuen Do – is pronounced ‘setsu’ (surprise, surprise ) in Japanese. So ‘Way of Intercepting the Sword’ would be ‘Setsu Ken Do’ in Japanese. Or ‘Setsu Ken no Michi’, for a more stylishly long-winded interpretation :mrgreen:>
Quote: ‘Sword’, however, is vastly different – ‘gim’ in Cantonese. That, and ‘Intercepting/Severing’ – the ‘Jeet’ in Jeet Kuen Do – is pronounced ‘setsu’ (surprise, surprise ) in Japanese. So ‘Way of Intercepting the Sword’ would be ‘Setsu Ken Do’ in Japanese. Or ‘Setsu Ken no Michi’, for a more stylishly long-winded interpretation
Ah, “gim” is it? Cheers Wills, I’ll have to make a note of that one.
You’re right on the Japanese pronunciation, although it’s probable that the natives would apply Unexplainable Weirdness Rule 64 of the Japanese language: where you have a “-tsu” syllable preceding another syllable, you knock out the “tsu” and double up the following consonants. Don’t ask me why! If that’s the case you’d end up with “sekkendo”, although I think “setsu ken no michi” has a much more poetic sound to it!>
Thanks for the reminder, guv! I’d completely forgotten about that dang rule, though it does do a good job of keeping words short and sweet, I must admit. Dang lazy Japanese who don’t want pronounce words properly Then again, the Japanese language as we know it today was invented by lazy court ladies who wanted to write poetry all day but who were too lazy to learn kanji word by word :mrgreen:>
Post: setsu nin to:
I cand say about JKD or KSW for now, is Gary Dill recognised, but he is not recognised by Japanese authoritys to teach Aikijujutsu.>
I teach English to Japanese students, and have been making a pathetic attempt at learning Japanese for about a year and a half now. It’s freakin crazy how many little rules they have… :shock:>
I’m hesitant to stick my head in here since I must admit that Dr. Wankenstein knows more Japanese than I do without ever having studied it (not that I’d claim to have “studied” it, but I’ve started to :mrgreen:), but when written out in kana you can write a small tsu (like the yo in k(i)yokushin) and then the next syllable which is how they cut the vowel off of the first. I’m not sure if that’s what you’re talking about or not, but it made sense in my head :mrgreen:.>
Post: BLACK PANTA:
How quickly this thread has turned into a Japanese lesson when You all know Chinese (both mandarin and Cantonese) Kick the Japanese language ass. My wife and I had this same argumet about wich language sounds better. She loves the Japanese language. I had the same argument with bamboo and we came to the conclusion, we both speak english and we agrue about wich oriental language is better.
But fer real though man Let try to stay on topic for a little. So I if I understand it correclty, this Jeet KenDo is not Jeet Kune Do?>
I don’t really know. I’m going to ask my Shihan on Monday night. Unless someone knows… it’ll remain a mystery until then. But I think that they’re different. (What do I know..)>
Quote: but when written out in kana you can write a small tsu (like the yo in k(i)yokushin) and then the next syllable which is how they cut the vowel off of the first. I’m not sure if that’s what you’re talking about or not, but it made sense in my head
You’re absolutely right sir. I’d forgotten to mention that bit. If it’s in kana, you would still write the “tsu” but you’d write it half-scale, just to show anyone reading that you shouldn’t pronounce it but double up the following consonants, as mentioned.
Cheers for pointing that out!
Panta: I’m not sure whether I prefer the sound of Japanese or the Chinese dialects, but I’ve heard (and this is a fairly unqualified opinion!) that for English speakers, Chinese is easier to learn than Japanese as the syntax is very similar. With Japanese you pretty much have to say everything backwards. Trust me to move to the wrong bloody country!>
Post: setsu nin to:
In my opinion its all that about Jeet KEN do is McDojo.>