what is the most effective style of karate?

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what is the most effective style of karate?
Original Poster: Elitexboxer
Forum: Japanese Martial Arts
Posted On: 21-11-2006, 19:45

Orginal Post: Elitexboxer: I have been looking for a style to choose and wonderd if you guys have any opinions on the newer styles of karate (kyokushin,seidokaikan,ect)
a style that beats muay thai would be nice,LOL :D

Post: dscott:

Check out Opariser1001’s posts. He’s the resident Kyokushin expert here.>

Post: BLACK PANTA:

[quote=Elitexboxer I have been looking for a style to choose and wonderd if you guys have any opinions on the newer styles of karate (kyokushin,seidokaikan,ect)
a style that beats muay thai would be nice,LOL :D[/quote 

Why not take Muay Thai then?>

Post: dscott:

[quote=BLACK PANTA 
Why not take Muay Thai then?[/quote 

:lol: I didn’t even catch that :lol: ……good point.>

Post: Elitexboxer:

[quote=dscott [quote=BLACK PANTA 
Why not take Muay Thai then?[/quote 

:lol: I didn’t even catch that :lol: ……good point.[/quote 

muay thai is too sport oriented I want something that beats it on the street and in the ring (if possible)

ps:does seidokan beat muay thai often?>

Post: BLACK PANTA:

[quote=Elitexboxer [quote=dscott [quote=BLACK PANTA 
Why not take Muay Thai then?[/quote 

:lol: I didn’t even catch that :lol: ……good point.[/quote 

muay thai is too sport oriented I want something that beats it on the street and in the ring (if possible)

ps:does seidokan beat muay thai often?[/quote 

Who is Seidokan btw? I dont know him/her so I can’t say if he/she could beat Muay Thai…..Those are some wierd names for kids. :roll:>

Post: dscott:

Seriously dude…..if you don’t think Muay Thai would work on the streetz, you got another thing coming.>

Post: BLACK PANTA:

Doode, besides the fact that MT is street effective, if you’re crap at boxing, you’ll be a crap fighter, if you’re crap at MT you’ll be a crap fighter, if you’re crap, then YOU’RE crap.

Styles don’t win fights, people do……….unless robots are fighting, then in that case it would be robots win fights :roll:

Wich is better Royal Gala, or Granny smith.>

Post: dscott:

[quote=BLACK PANTA Styles don’t win fights, people do……….unless robots are fighting, then in that case it would be robots win fights :roll:
[/quote 

Oh Panta….you’ve done it again (voiced as Mr. Magoo).>

Post: bamboo:

:idea:
But if there are two robots fighting and one has giant drill and the other diffuses a light scent of marigold but has a secret robot dog that although does not fight is quite annoying, then who will win? :?:>

Post: Elitexboxer:

I just want to know what style of full contact karate is the most effective/popular so I can decide>

Post: bamboo:

At the moment, kyokushin is the way to go for hard training, full contact, competition proven results.

-bamboo>

Post: dscott:

See my first post and do some research on this website.>

Post: Hengest:

If you’re looking purely at karate styles, you can’t do much better than kyokushin. It’s actual techniques are probably more sport-oriented than muay thai, but it offers a similar level of conditioning.

My personal choice would be daidojuku, but training is not so freely available as for kyokushin. Although it’s still a sport, all ranges are legal, as are most techniques (including groin kicks under certain circumstances), so you’d be a better all-round fighter. It annoys me a bit that they look to other styles to flesh out their training. If they took the time to research karate more, they’d have little need, but you can’t have everything I suppose.

Of course, any karate style can be effective when taught well – Wado Ryu is a particular favourite of mine – but it seems much more difficult to find decent instructors in other ryuha.>

Post: glennf:

Hi guys, new here, don’t know if topic still open for discussion. I have been training in Goju-kai for the last ten or so years, having done some shotokan, judo and muay thai along the way. As Black Panta said a crap fighter is crap no matter what style he/she does. I have found Goju to be a very good all round style (except for groung work). It seems to me that in your posts you don’t seem to differentiate btw dojo and comp fighting. In the dojo we don’t have restrictions. Groin kicks are very common as are hiji ate’s, hiza geri’s etc. even on special occasions, head-butts! Makes for a decent defence on the street.>

Post: bamboo:

Thanks for the input Glenn. :wink:

Threads are always open when people have new things to add, we only frown on ressurecting dead threads when nothing new has been added.

See you around,

-bamboo :D>

Post: Hengest:

[quote=glennf It seems to me that in your posts you don’t seem to differentiate btw dojo and comp fighting. In the dojo we don’t have restrictions. Groin kicks are very common as are hiji ate’s, hiza geri’s etc. even on special occasions, head-butts! Makes for a decent defence on the street.[/quote 

I don’t differentiate because, when it comes to free sparring, in my experience at least, most dojo don’t differentiate.

Are you allowed to use groin kicks and headbutts in free sparring? If so, then I would say your dojo is the exception rather than the rule. There’s a big difference between practicing a groin kick in a controlled scenario and using it in free-flowing combat. That’s why schools like Daidojuku have caused a stir, because they allow this stuff in free sparring. Some see them as the saviours of karate, some see them as thugs, but the same things were said about Geoff Thompson years ago.

I don’t mean to be cynical, but we get these claims a lot here, e.g. it seems every TKD guy goes to a dojang where they train in “classical street-effective” TKD and not that sporty stuff the other places do. :roll:>

Post: glennf:

We use those techniques during free sparring, but it is up to the karateka to practice control. Personally I’ve been floored a good couple of times with a groin kick!

As for the cynicism, it is understandable. There is always someone who thinks that they are the ‘real-deal’, and that they can take anyone. I myself am an average fighter at best, but I love the ART of karate.

Cheers!>

Post: Hengest:

That’s refreshing to hear glenn. Sounds like you’ve got an excellent dojo there; make the most of it! :D

It’s also nice to hear from someone who speaks so highly of karate. I’m not a karateka myself (at least, not at the moment), but I have nothing but respect for the karate ryuha. I find it a fascinating art; it has all the techniques you’ll ever need. But it gets such a bad press these days, what with McDojos and poor instructors in abundance, not to mention the public’s cliched view of karate. It’s a shame such a great art isn’t taken as seriously as it should be.>

Post: setsu nin to:

Elitexboxer

Any style beats Muay Thai if you are better than Muay Thai fighter, same as same as Muay Thai fighter will beats you no matter which style you practice is he is better fighter.>

Post: darkside05:

Elitexboxer

Just thought I would also add that sometimes what you may have to do is really just investigate the dojos themselves. A good example is even in my own Karate style (World Yoshukai) the difference between each individual instructors will differ like night and day. Back home my instructors were very kata oriented but did work in really good full contact fighting but no ground work. In my college town though, the instructor there does very little kata, full contact fighting only, and also works BJJ, boxing, and judo into his curriculum. So bottom line lesson is to really check out the teachers themselves and find out what their classes are oriented around. Best of luck to you.>

Post: Elitexboxer:

Well I guess you’re right, if you have a good teacher you could become a good fighter.but if you train in “traditional” karate” you’re stuck with all those damn snap kicks.>

Post: glennf:

Quote:
Well I guess you’re right, if you have a good teacher you could become a good fighter.but if you train in “traditional” karate” you’re stuck with all those damn snap kicks.

Woah! Go have a look at one of Oz’s fights in the media section and see if any of those are snap kicks!

Seriously though, the snap really is all about controlling your limbs while you do basics, NOT for when you do bag work or kumite. The only time you would use a snap in kumite is for a head kick, but then again it’s all about control.

Then again, there’s a school of thought that a head kick is also not very traditional either as it leaves the groin open to all kinds of nastiness…>

Post: samurai6string:

why’s everyone always downing snap kicks?>

Post: Elitexboxer:

[quote=samurai6string why’s everyone always downing snap kicks?[/quote 

Because they’re only slightly more powerful than a punch and have 10 times the risk factor. no offense I just really hate whole idea.
Whipsaw kicks on the other hand… 8)>

Post: samurai6string:

they have their place and purpose though, I mean you wouldn’t criticize a finger tip jab to right below the trachea because it isn’t as powerful as a closed fist punch.>

Post: Bloodybirds:

Muy thai is just Northern Shaolin fighting without the animals….only the hard training and basic/simplistic techniques added. Sorry to interfere as a Chineses arts stylist, lol, but like to see how the other half lives!! While we are on the subject of ryu systems, etc., I have a question on the Japanese side from my viewpoint to Bamboo, BP, Samurai, etc: guys, is it just the Okinawan original arts of karate that maintain the white crane and animal influence from the original Shorin (Shaolin) ryu introduced by a monk 500 years ago from China or do mainland karate systems today still have any animal fighting influence in them? Second question: as BP and some others might know, kung fu approaches generically from a circular pattern and then attacks linear….in current karate theorm, other than aikido are any karate patterns circular in approach or attack methodology? If not, how does a karate practitioner evade a straight on attack, with his/her own power or step to the side, etc.? Sorry, always been curious about this. One last question, is there a generic chin na type label or practice for karate adepts (I do not mean jujitsu, judo, etc.) and if so what is the name for locking/controlling techniques of karate?

As always, thanks guys!!!>

Post: Elitexboxer:

[quote=samurai6string they have their place and purpose though, I mean you wouldn’t criticize a finger tip jab to right below the trachea because it isn’t as powerful as a closed fist punch.[/quote 

A finger jap is one of the deadliest and non telegraphed techniques I’ve ever heard of. Please give me an example of an effective snap kick :?>

Post: Bloodybirds:

Front snap kick inside to the femoral artery on the inside thigh as the opponent looks to close the gap….a front snap kick of course to the groin……a front snap kick to the back leg as the opponent moves to the side, you move to his other side and kick the back of his knee on the opposite side or the Achilles tendon below. These are just some. However, a front snap kick’s effectiveness may decline the higher into the opponents’ body it is thrown, especially if coming like a freight train at you. A front snap kick should always be thrown at an angle towards a cavity, a joint, or other soft tissue that does not require breaking power as in other kicks like the side kick, heel kick, round house, etc.

Just my two cents worth to answer the question….. 8)>

Post: glennf:

Quote:
Front snap kick inside to the femoral artery on the inside thigh as the opponent looks to close the gap….a front snap kick of course to the groin……a front snap kick to the back leg as the opponent moves to the side, you move to his other side and kick the back of his knee on the opposite side or the Achilles tendon below.

Well put bloodybirds! In my humble opinion there is no better attack or defensive kick than the front snap to the groin!

To try and answer your questions, I practice Goju-kai karate. It is the Japanese ‘version’ of the Okinawan system of Goju-ryu. Go-ju meaning hard/soft. We obviously have very linear attacks as with all karate styles, however our blocks and defensive movements are fairly circular. We use alot of evasive movements ie stepping to the side, 45 degrees etc. Our blocks are circular in the sense that we employ small circles on the horizontal and vertical planes. For eg. a head block (with the right hand) will go clockwise, with a wrist grab at the top followed by either a throw on the follow through or an arm break at the elbow joint (similar to Aikido, I guess). Hope that makes sense!!

From what I believe Goju is the karate style that has the most Chinese influence. Which leads to the next point. In Goju-kai we have 2 kata that is only performed by our president, Gennkaku and Shikkaku. In it you can clearly see the use of crane type strikes, blocks and stances. I have only seen these two katas two or three times so I can’t give much more info. However the rest of us use the cat stance (if you class that as an animal influence) almost exclusively for sparring, bunkai etc.

I hope this has been slightly helpful, it is just my insignificant veiws!!

Regards.>

Post: Bloodybirds:

Thanks, GlenF, very helpful. Quick funny story about a great Goju person I knew in Dallas. As you know, the symbol for the style is the clenched fist and arm extended. Welll…a guy named DP Hill, God bless him, a great guy and great martial artist had a saying underneath that said, “The Nine Fingers of Death!” When I asked him why not ten, he smiled and slowly pulled out his right hand that had his thumb missing….he had cut it off accidently while practicing with a real sickle weapon. He loved Gojuryu and at the time he had many years on me (I was just a beginner in the late 70s, early 80s, and he already had done it for 20-30 years) so he regaled me about going to Okinawa and training with people over there. Also, to those who know him in Aikido, I mentioned this before but Bill Sosa from Dallas was a great Aikido master who was an even greater man. What a loss when he passed!!! He was the first who taught me that it was the person, not the style that mattered back in 1980 or 1981 I believe.>

Post: Elitexboxer:

[quote=Bloodybirds Front snap kick inside to the femoral artery on the inside thigh as the opponent looks to close the gap….a front snap kick of course to the groin……a front snap kick to the back leg as the opponent moves to the side, you move to his other side and kick the back of his knee on the opposite side or the Achilles tendon below. These are just some. However, a front snap kick’s effectiveness may decline the higher into the opponents’ body it is thrown, especially if coming like a freight train at you. A front snap kick should always be thrown at an angle towards a cavity, a joint, or other soft tissue that does not require breaking power as in other kicks like the side kick, heel kick, round house, etc.

Just my two cents worth to answer the question….. 8)[/quote 

Ofcourse it makes the best groin kick but personally I don’t see why you would cut your balance in half just to snapkick someones knee cap.

Question:do traditional karate schools have roundhouse whipsaw or “dead legged” kicks?>

Post: glennf:

Quote:
He was the first who taught me that it was the person, not the style that mattered

And that’s all folks!!>

Post: Hengest:

[quote=Bloodybirds One last question, is there a generic chin na type label or practice for karate adepts (I do not mean jujitsu, judo, etc.) and if so what is the name for locking/controlling techniques of karate?[/quote 

It’s usually referred to as tegumi, written with te, meaning “hand”, and kumi, here meaning “grapple”, but more usually meaning “co-ordinate” or “unite”. It refers to general grappling techniques, but is also the name of a wrestling style native to Okinawa.

A pretty good explanation at http://www.iainabernethy.com/articles/article_12.asp>

Post: Bloodybirds:

Elite, though this is a Chinese arts comment, a little feedback to your balance comment….first, the assumption is that, after almost 30 years of training, one would know how to root for that instant, move appropriately while using footwork, and have a front snap kick that is fast and accurate enough after thousands of repetitions to be natural rather than a technical move. In my training, specifically, in the beginning my three masters, at different times of my training, would have us stand on one leg in a crane stance for up to 30 minutes or have our senior classmate come by and try to sweep the ground leg while we stood on it at full power and speed. After much pain and falling on our arse, one learns to have balance on one or both legs…..what mitigates balance is leaving the ground for a flying whatever like the movies (hard to root and change when in the air, something about gravity and physics, darn it), or not learning to have balance whatever the circumstance. I have seen enough of my friends who do traditional karate to know that similar training exists, especially overseas where I saw karateka stand on one leg while their sensei broke bamboo or bats over the supporting leg and shinbones. After that, I think maintaining balance during a fast front snap kick might be attainable.

Just my opinion.>

Post: Bloodybirds:

Also, Elite, breaking your opponent’s kneecap or Achille’s tendon does tend to slow your opponent down sufficiently enough to get the hell outta there, especially if you are fighting more than one foe at a time as a consequence…. :lol:>

Post: Elitexboxer:

[quote=Bloodybirds Also, Elite, breaking your opponent’s kneecap or Achille’s tendon does tend to slow your opponent down sufficiently enough to get the hell outta there, especially if you are fighting more than one foe at a time as a consequence…. :lol:[/quote 

That’s one powerful-ass snap kick.Maybe I’ll look into it…>

Post: Bloodybirds:

Elite, thanks for the sarcasm…..we come from two different realms of the martial arts…I concur that the front snap kick is basically a foot jab and of course is not all powerful like you would want to deliver, but there are other ways to deliver techniques than what you might have been exposed to…..I have been doing this for almost 30 years, including 2 years training in Hong Kong under three legit masters that others on this website can vouch for. What is your background? I agree, maybe being a Chinese martial arts practitioner, I should have not ventured onto a Japanese forum, but others on this site know I am open to learning and giving at the same time, no matter what the art. However, before making sarcastic inferences, you might want to explore the things mentioned….hey, here’s a concept, they might even be practiced and taught in the Japanese arts as well!!! :wink:>

Post: bamboo:

Was he being sarcastic?>

Post: samurai6string:

a fast, natural, low front snap kick can be very effective as a technique of distraction or “softening” technique as well before performing an escape or counter.>

Post: Bloodybirds:

Bamboo, seemed like it to me but I may be wrong, if so, sorry! In any event, like Samurai says, great set up technique. That kick is like a high outside crescent kick or a fast front round house….kicks to set up finishing techniques after the guard is dropped from the initial fast counter attacks.>

Post: Elitexboxer:

[quote=Bloodybirds Bamboo, seemed like it to me but I may be wrong, if so, sorry! In any event, like Samurai says, great set up technique. That kick is like a high outside crescent kick or a fast front round house….kicks to set up finishing techniques after the guard is dropped from the initial fast counter attacks.[/quote 

I wasn’t being sarcastic.

If a snap kick could break someones kneecap It would have to be considerally powerful and I admire that. it would be difficult right? I mean It’s not like kneecaps are make of pudding. :o

PS: why do Oi tsukis come from hip level in traditional karate?>

Post: Bloodybirds:

Elite, the kneecap is a bone and in itself is powerful but….remember, in my response I said to step to the side and kick, thus forcing the kneecap to buttress against much weaker tendons/tissues that hold it in place. Plus, as us old farts know, never know when someone has osteoarthritis or something else malevolent….. 8) :lol: :wink: Always be cognizant of bone structure, tissues, connectivity between tendons/ligaments/cartilege and also the cavities and organs that can be attacked with minimum power. In true martial arts, whether kung fu, karate, tae kwon do, tai chi, etc., it is not the strength of the technique or the power alone but the placement, time, conditioning, movement, particular stress point at that moment, etc. that all determine effectiveness of a movement or technique. Mass x velocity works no matter what the physics in motion….many people always consider the mass (strength/power plus weight) vs. the speed of the technique. One is always faster moving than remaining stagnant. Sooo…a front snap kick by itself may not be effective usually but add to it proper placement at the proper speed while moving to the proper shui point are all essential for one stop shopping. This is true no matter what the style or art employed!! Again, that is why the skill and/or lack of skill by the practitioner and his/her opponent are what in play more than the actual methodology employed.>

Post: Elitexboxer:

:arrow: That’s good enough for me *cough*not sarcastic*cough*>

Post: Bloodybirds:

Elite….. :lol: :lol: :wink:>

Post: nbotary:

Knees, like any other joint, can be dislocated and/or broken if enough force is applied in any direction opposite to the way the joint is designed to move. Personally, I wouldn’t attack the knee or the groin with a front snap kick as the odds of being successful are fairly small. I’d much rather attack the cavities of the thigh, ankles, sides of the knees, and tops of the foot. But then again, I’m a Chinese stylist and I’d rather cause more damage in the long run. :twisted:>

Post: Elitexboxer:

[quote=nbotary Knees, like any other joint, can be dislocated and/or broken if enough force is applied in any direction opposite to the way the joint is designed to move. Personally, I wouldn’t attack the knee or the groin with a front snap kick as the odds of being successful are fairly small. I’d much rather attack the cavities of the thigh, ankles, sides of the knees, and tops of the foot. But then again, I’m a Chinese stylist and I’d rather cause more damage in the long run. :twisted:[/quote 

I know this thread is really off topic but,what style do you use?>

Post: Bloodybirds:

Elite, NB is a student of mine and Jeff Bolt. From Jeff he learns northern long fist kung fu and Yang style tai chi and from me he learns that plus my other arts of Wudan Nine Birds Shaolin style and Ying Jow Pai Northern Eagle claw styles. NBi is a great friend and a great student, though he is an Aggie and I am a Longhorn, means something if you live down here in Texas!!!>

Post: nbotary:

Elite – hopefully that answered your question!!! :wink: :lol:

By the way, to get back on the topic of front snap kicks, they’re great if you love spare ribs. I developed a taste for them after feeding my ribs to Bloodybirds!!! :idea: :wink: :D :lol:>

Post: Elitexboxer:

[quote=nbotary Elite – hopefully that answered your question!!! :wink: :lol:

By the way, to get back on the topic of front snap kicks, they’re great if you love spare ribs. I developed a taste for them after feeding my ribs to Bloodybirds!!! :idea: :wink: :D :lol:[/quote 

I think I’ve pretty much discussed all I can about snap kicks.

lunge punches anyone?>

Post: glennf:

Quote:
lunge punches anyone?

ever hit someone with a reverse lunge punch, where the timing, focus, body moving forward etc. is perfect? Ain’t nothing sweeter! 8O That’s pretty much the expression you get! Seen guys literally knocked back 3 or 4 metres and not being able to breath for about 5 mins after!!>

Post: bamboo:

Quote:
not being able to breath for about 5 mins after!!

Should they not have been killed then? :wink:>

Post: Elitexboxer:

[quote=bamboo 
Quote:
not being able to breath for about 5 mins after!!

Should they not have been killed then? :wink:[/quote 

That’s probably a slight exageration
:twisted:>

Post: glennf:

Quote:
Should they not have been killed then?

Ha, Ha!!! Got me there! :oops: I’m sure you know what I meant though! Like trying to breath with a cracked sternum!>

Post: Elitexboxer:

[quote=glennf 
Quote:
Should they not have been killed then?

Ha, Ha!!! Got me there! :oops: I’m sure you know what I meant though! Like trying to breath with a cracked sternum![/quote 

:?: Where is the punch supposed to land? chest? :?:>

Post: Bloodybirds:

To my karate brothers, as a Chinese martial arts guy of many years I do not know the terminology of a “lunge punch.” Could Bamboo or someone here translate for me? :wink: Thanks!! When I think of lunge, I think of Nasty Anderson jumping in the air, leaving his ribs exposed, and trying to hit Billy Blanks before Blanks nails him with a great side kick, in classic semi contact tourneys in the early to mid 80s pre Taebo Blanks….LOL. That is a lunge to me!!

Sorry!!!!!>

Post: Elitexboxer:

[quote=Bloodybirds To my karate brothers, as a Chinese martial arts guy of many years I do not know the terminology of a “lunge punch.” Could Bamboo or someone here translate for me? :wink: Thanks!! When I think of lunge, I think of Nasty Anderson jumping in the air, leaving his ribs exposed, and trying to hit Billy Blanks before Blanks nails him with a great side kick, in classic semi contact tourneys in the early to mid 80s pre Taebo Blanks….LOL. That is a lunge to me!!

Sorry!!!!![/quote 

I’m pretty sure it’s called an Oi tsuki.>

Post: Bloodybirds:

Thanks Elite….but with apologies of not making myself clear (whoops), I did not mean the Japanese name for it but what the actual technique does or how it is used since, to my knowledge, we do not use the term “lunge punch” in Chinese martial arts. Thanks!!>

Post: Elitexboxer:

[quote=Bloodybirds Thanks Elite….but with apologies of not making myself clear (whoops), I did not mean the Japanese name for it but what the actual technique does or how it is used since, to my knowledge, we do not use the term “lunge punch” in Chinese martial arts. Thanks!![/quote 

Okay. From what I know (srry if IM wrng) the lunge punch start in a left forwards stance with your right arm pulled back and with your fist at chest or hip level (depending on your school).you then launch your Oi Tsuke while taking a forward step. I hope this answers your question. :D>

Post: Bloodybirds:

Cool…..that is a basic forward punch in the Chinese methodology. Thanks Elite…..now I got it…duh!!! 8)>

Post: glennf:

Quote:
Okay. From what I know (srry if IM wrng) the lunge punch start in a left forwards stance with your right arm pulled back and with your fist at chest or hip level (depending on your school).you then launch your Oi Tsuke while taking a forward step. I hope this answers your question.

Oi tsuke or gyaku tsuke?

Quote:
Where is the punch supposed to land? chest?

Apologies Elite! An oi tsuke (front hand punch- in your eg. the left hand) would definitely be aimed at jodan (face). The gyaku tsuke (back hand/ reverse punch – in your eg. the right hand) is generally aimed for chest/ sternum area. I was refering to the gyaku! I hope it makes sense, unless all my terminologies are wrong? :oops: Maybe someone can jump in here and correct me if they are!>

Post: Bloodybirds:

GlenF, thanks for the translation from the Japanese terms…..it helped me greatly…..all mine are Chinese so now I know the appropriate analogies that Elite was mentioning. Thanks!>

Post: shotokai:

in my opinion no martial art is better than the other it all depends on the practioner i mean every style has a weakness that a natural fact u just have to learn how to exploit those weaknesses>

Post: shurite44:

[quote=setsu nin to Elitexboxer

Any style beats Muay Thai if you are better than Muay Thai fighter, same as same as Muay Thai fighter will beats you no matter which style you practice is he is better fighter.[/quote 

Best post in the thread. So many forget it is the individual fighting not the art.>

Post: graham1:

[quote=Elitexboxer [quote=Bloodybirds To my karate brothers, as a Chinese martial arts guy of many years I do not know the terminology of a “lunge punch.” Could Bamboo or someone here translate for me? :wink: Thanks!! When I think of lunge, I think of Nasty Anderson jumping in the air, leaving his ribs exposed, and trying to hit Billy Blanks before Blanks nails him with a great side kick, in classic semi contact tourneys in the early to mid 80s pre Taebo Blanks….LOL. That is a lunge to me!!

Sorry!!!!![/quote 

I’m pretty sure it’s called an Oi tsuki.[/quote 

Lunge punch translates as ‘Jun Tsuki’ Stepping punch translates as ‘Oi Tsuki’.>

Post: Bloodybirds:

Thanks Graham!! Could you describe it a little further to differentiate between the two techniques from a karate perspective?

Thanks!!>

Post: graham1:

Jun tsuki is the term predominately used in Wado Ryu/Kai. Here the basic sparring stance is extended & the arm on the same side as the lead leg makes a strike either at the same time or just after the lead foot lands. The same lunge can be made from a feet side by side starting stance.

Oi tsuki is used in Shotokan & indicates a full step forward or back from a basic sparring stance, with the arm on the same side of the lead foot making its strike after the foot has landed, going forwards, or the rear foot when going backwards.

Both systems have gyaku tsuki versions of these techniques, & the direction of lunging/stepping can be varied to suit your immediate circumstances.

Hopefully this will help you, but I’m a little rusty on exact meanings of terminology as I’ve been away from the club scene for 20 years. My style of choice now is Lau Gar kung fu, although I still do practice some Wado techniques..>

Post: Bloodybirds:

Lau Gar is in the Hung Kuen, Hop Gar, and White Eyebrow family, if I recall? I am eagle claw, nine bird, southern white crane, and Yang tai chi, so we might be related now……lol. And, lest we forget, certain ryu systems of Okinawan karate have white crane as part of their basis!!

Thanks Graham for the clarification.

Hsieh-Hsieh>

Post: graham1:

Lau Gar practiced here in Britain is a composite style made up by Master Jeremy Yau, who is from the Hakka region of China. His system was based on the Hakka & Southern Praying Mantis systems, taught to him by his father & one of his uncles. These attacking systems he changed to defensive ones. He took elements of Wado Ryu & Taekwondo, with participation of leading instructors, for the kicking – although this has now evolved into its own style of kicking.

The Lau Gar you described is the system practiced in America.>

Post: Bloodybirds:

Thanks Graham, you are right about certain distinctions between the American brand and overseas. Interesting!!!>

Post: graham1:

The early karate tournament scene in North America was coloured by the popularity of the Korean & Japanese systems. These were popularized by the numbers of US military personnel who had served in Korea & in the occupation of Japan in the post WW2 years. Canada had a preference for jujitsu, which it retains to this day.

In the post WW2 years in Britain, jujitsu was popular until its instructors became fascinated with judo & its emphasis on throwing techniques. This put off the youths of that era who were fascinated by jujitsu’s striking & kicking techniques, which they relied on in fights as the 1940 & 1950’s were a very violent period. By the late 1950’s karate started to become popular in the form of Yoshinkan, the military form of Shotokan karate.

By the 1970’s, other systems of karate became popular, but their harsh training & violent sparring put off the very people it was targeted at – the people who needed self-defence training. Within the Shukokai system, tournaments were no more than punch-ups between different clubs, even though such application would disqualify fighters.

By the 1980’s, things were calming down & tournaments were taking on a more professional aspect. More interstyle tournaments were held, which allowed for the absorbtion of credible techniques into styles from other sources. Karate also went on to involve itself in tournaments with Korean & Chinese systems, & bettered itself because of that.

To the present day all systems have benefited themselves by this manner, especially by involvement with full contact systems.

With the increased popularity of the Phillipino & Indonesian systems who knows where that will take us!

(Take deep breaths. Calm down. There, there now)>

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