boxing Q&A continued…….
Original Poster: Umy
Forum: Kickboxing & Boxing Forum
Posted On: 18-07-2005, 09:25
Orginal Post: Umy: Ok guys, ive brought up the topic again because ever since i read dravens origional thread I realised how much we can learn from each other by posting more useful threads like this.
The title of the thread basically says it all, if there are any questions you guys would like to ask me about the basics of sweet science or boxing training feel free to let me know, ill answer your questions as well as I can with the time I have.
Also if anyone has anything to add to my posts dont hesitate to add any details Ive missed out.
I hope we can all learn from this,
erm ask away?
I’m not sure if this is the sort of question you had in mind, but I guess I”ll give it a shot anyway. You said before that you’ve fought outside of a training and ring environment (at least I think you did). Were you able to defend yourself easily without gloves on, or was it a big adjustment?>
Post: setsu nin to:
What happend to Draven?>
firstly for setsu, i dont know what happened to draven, i saw him on the board a few weeks ago and I havent seen him post since then.
Secondly gong sao, quite a few people have said that boxers have weak wrists because they are always taped up and gloved, I have never had any problems with my hands when fighting in or out of the ring, as long as you punch right you should be okay. The heavy bag toughened up my wrists and hands very well, at first I couldnt hit it hard because of the pain, but over the period of a few months I could pound away happily.
Also it wasnt really that big of an adjustment but you certainly can feel the difference because you often punch harder with your mitts on.>
Do you ever punch with a vertical fist?
What kind of footwork do you use?>
Its up to the fighter or the fighters coach whether or not they punch with a vertical fist, personally I prefer a horizontal fist just for comfort but some fighters one being the great jack dempsey used to emphisise vertical fist punching and emphisised keeping the centerline, similar to wing chun (you can find some of his book on the sitckgrapplers site http://stickgrappler2.tripod.com/kbox/dempsey.html )
As far as footwork is concerned there should be a shoulder width gap between your feet at all times to make sure your balanced, you should shuffle around on the balls of your feet so you can transfer weight easily and keep balanced, when side stepping you move the foot closest to the direction you want to go first then the other foot, for example left foot first when moving to the left right foot when moving to the right. Try to shuffle rather than walk so you arent caught flat footed and end up on your back, make sure you always maintain your shoulder width gap to keep you balanced, turn your upper body off so you dont expose you chest. Keep youe lead knee slightly bent at all times.>
Were you able to defend yourself easily without gloves on, or was it a big adjustment?
My friends hand swelled up like a balloon after his bout last night, he won but didnt tape up his hands before the fight, he hit his opponent clean on his forehead and injured his hand even while he had 12 oz gloves on
Imagine if he didnt have gloves on :shock:>
Have you got any fights lined up Umy?
All the best mate…>
not at the mo bro, due to my jaw problem, once its sorted ill probably be fighting every other week, thats what most of the lads do anyway.>
Let me ask you this UMY. I’ve been boxing for years now, and my younger cousin is interested in it. He has really bad habits. When sparring he does really stupid stuff. Should I just really pop him hard (like my trainer used to do me). Because I cant seem to get my point across any other way. But I dont want him to get sour about sparring.>
Ive been there bro, if the kids have a general interest in the sport make sure you dont kill it by harming them, let them know their faults, if you cuz drops his hands tap him on the head to let him know, if he is turning his head away pop him lightly every time he does, nothing too hard, you dont want to hurt him just nice and light.
If he really does have a serious problem and doesnt seem to be listening to you I suppose you will get away with an odd medium powered shot, remember dont kill him, just tap him and if the problem increases then one medium power shot, if he doesnt learn from that go over the problem together and show him how he can get over it, a good coach can do that with words and not necessarily harming their fighter.
Remember tell him how he can get over that problem, maybe drill a little slower than usual until he gets used to it and his fault goes away then drill faster, especially if he is new to the game, things take time, if you have been training for a few years it will come to you easy whereas if your cuz is new it is new to him.
Hope it helps
good luck bro>
Thanks for the info. I guess i’ll just keep tapping him on the head. He seems serious about boxing, but i think he has watched to many boxers on tv who try to be funny or cute, and then he thinks he can do that stuff.>
a lot of kids see guys like sugar ray leonard, ali and roy jones jr toying around and playing chicken games with their opponents and think they can do that, once they realise it isnt a game, they’ll stop.
Remember, dont fool around unless you know you can get away with it, box smart, they dont call it the sweet science for nothing :wink:>
A friend of mine is moving out of town soon, he asked me what the minimum requirements were for a home gym till he could find one in his new town.
I decided to write an article on this but instead of posting it in a new thread and wasting space I thought id post it hear instead so that you guys can add to it (remember this is your thread as much as it is mine, I like to hear your ideas)
The Home Gym
The time will eventually come when sooner or later you find yourself wanting or having to train at home. The question is what do you need in order to train succesfully, in this article I will be breifly listing the minimum requirements as far as equipment goes.
First up we need a nice place to train in, it should be fairly large and you should be able to move around freely in it.
OK, now we have a room lets fill it.
The heavy bag
Not many people will enjoy hitting the air all day so we need some solid piece of equipment that will be able to take our blows and build power in our shots. The heavy bag is a priceless piece of equipment for any fighter, it builds strength, stamina and skill and at the same time gives you a great workout.
Yes our friend the mirror, when it comes to checking form and technique while training on the bag or shadow boxing its about as much feedback as you will get without a partner, its important to see what you are doing so that you pick faults in your guard, also your reflection can act as an opponent to help liven up your training.
It is very important, especially when hitting the heavy bag to make sure that your hands have as much protection as they can get, bag mitts will do this. You can get a pair or bag mitts from any good sports store for a reasonable price. You may also want to buy a pair or hand wraps to add that little bit extra protection to your hands when training.
Yes skipping is not a compulsary activity for a fighter but I reccomend it to everyone, it will help greatly with co-ordination and footwork and is a great form of cardio as well. Make sure you change the way you skip to keep training interesting, skip at different tempos and experiment.
This may not be an option for everone but if you can find someone who is willing to train with you, hold the pads and spar with you then you will find you workouts a lot more productive. Your partner should be roughly the same height and weight as you and should also be willing to train regularly. You really should find a partner if you find yourself training at home for more than a month or you will see yourself decline as far as skill goes, the bag wont tell you what youre doing wrong.
Again this isnt compulsary but if you find yourself doing a lot of floor conditioning exercises your back may thank you for it in the long run.
Light bag/double end bag/maize bag
Once again these arent compulsary, but its always nice to have a few surfaces and textures to punch at. If you have a training partner you may want to get yourselves a pair of focus mitts for padwork to add to variety but again this it up to you.
Workouts get boring sometimes and if your a music person then having the radio on whilst training wont harm anyone and will keep things interesting.
There is a lot more equipment that you will find in most gyms but I have covered the basic needs for home training, if anyone wants to add to this feel free.
Take care and tell me what you think
I have a question… I have problems with throwing counter punches, because I’m affraid to get hit with left or right jab’s….>
UMY: Good Home Gym post. You can go to Title and get the heavybag stand w/speed bag attatchment for 150$, i think its a pretty good deal.>
great thread KING UMY, very helpfull.
spired, whist i no longer fight i still train and spare reasonably regularly and when it comes to counter punching i have always been told that the best defence is attack especially when you are being attacked. therefore just start punching back. even if you miss it will give your opponent something to think about and put him off his attack. you may get hit to start with but you will improve with practice.>
have a question… I have problems with throwing counter punches, because I’m affraid to get hit with left or right jab’s….
Timing gave some good advice to this but ill see if I can help you get over your problem.
I think this is a problem you will come over in sparring. Next time you spar make a mental note to yourself that you will try to counter a punch whenever you can, if you get hit it doesnt matter, 9/10 times you wont get knocked down by a jab. Take the oppertunities you see, bruce lee used to say if you see the opening go with your instincts and go for it.
I think you will get over it in time as long as you keep practicing, remember dont be scared of getting hit, a jab wont knock you out but a nice rear hook to your opponents chin will
Another lil tip is to tap down your opponents jab with your mitt (so your hand is on top of theirs) and then jab them, this works great with fighters in the opposite stance.
Ill leave this with one quote that has seen me through sparring sessions against very good opponents:
The coward and the hero both feel the same way, its what the hero does that makes the difference, the hero has the dicipline and courage to do what needs to be done but the coward, he runs
Throwing and landing those counterpunches with the risk of getting jabed will make you a hero, sitting there and being afraid to throw shots will make you a coward (sorry fot the cruddy example ) next time your sparring ask yourself, what am I?
hope it helps, if you need anything else just ask
take care guys>
heres a short article I wrote a while ago on the uppercut, again instead of making a new post about it ill leave it in here:
The uppercut is a wonderful blow; a punch usually executed at close range that snaps back your opponent?s head and knocks the wind out of them when thrown to the body.
When set up by a few jabs or hooks the uppercut can be a very hard punch to see coming and if thrown correctly can be a big fight stopper.
The uppercut is thrown like every other punch in boxing, the hip rotation cant be emphasised enough, the uppercut should be thrown in a smooth upward curving motion and should snap at the end of the blow with the rotation of the hips.
Remember, crush peanuts, many coaches teach their fighters to imagine they are crushing peanuts beneath their feet when throwing blows to help emphasise the twist on the balls of their feet, this works not only for the uppercut but all punches.
Unlike the other punches it is harder to practice the uppercut on the heavy bag.
There are however other pieces of equipment that the uppercut can be practiced on, the maize bag and uppercut bags are 2 examples. Speed can also be worked on when doing pad work as a partner can hold the pads in a position for the uppercut to hit them. Work hard training your uppercut as it can be a valuable tool in you arsenal.
Uppercuts are often successful at close range and are easy to land straight through an opponents guard, one combination that I have seen a few use to land the rear uppercut is a lead body hook followed by a rear body hook then a rear uppercut, your opponent will be open for an uppercut straight though the middle after the body hooks, also when fighting in close range against a fighter who puts his head down you will find the uppercut a great tool.
Well that?s it for now
Until next time take care and train hard
I have written an article on what a typical home gym should include above, it actually occured to me today that I havent said what a typical session should include
Im going to quickly try and cover a basic boxing session now.
Shadow boxing, whether you love it, hate it or think its useless every fighter should do it. Why you ask? shadowboxing does not only help get the blood flowing and get the muscles that you will be repeatedly using ready but also helps you practice combinations you will use for sparring.
In Bruce Lee’s words shadowboxing is homework for sparring.
At first throw your punches nice and light to get into things, after a few rounds build up speed and power. Many people argue that you shouldnt fully extend your arms while shadowboxing and others say there isnt anything wrong with it, the choice is up to you, personally id focus on proper technique as opposed to power when shadowboxing so you wont have to worry about your joints.
Also If you have a rope id try and skip for 5-10 minutes to really get the blood flowing, either 3 rounds or 1-3 mintues or 5-10 minutes straight, remember variation it the key to keeping workouts interesting, mix your skipping up a bit.
Next is the warm up, every gym will have its own method, I generally warm up from my neck to my feet, giving the exact rountine would take a thread of its own, but make sure you warm up thoroughly.
Again this would require a thread of its own if i went into detail but 15-30 minutes of hard bodyweight conditioning.
If you want to box you have to be fit, its as simple as that, if your just training skill and no conditioning you may as well sit in the crowd instead of stepping into the ring, boxing isnt a game, its a serious sport with many dangers and without conditioning you wont have the fuel in your tank that you will need in later rounds.
Bagwork, depending on the bag, will help develop strength, endurance, power and skill. Make sure you try and work on good form when on the bags, its easy for your hands to start dropping, especially after a few hard rounds on the bag, focus on technique rather than killing your bag.
Padwork is taking the techniques you have practiced on the bag and shadowboxing applying them to a moving target, this will help build accuracy, stamina, reflexes and speed. If you are lucky enough to have a partner a few rounds on the pads will add flavour to your sessions and also teach you new skills, remember mix up punches when on the pads, if your holding then vary combinations and move around, make you man follow you, also test his guard whilst moving so he remembers to keep his hands up.
Sparring is taking the techniqes you have applied on the pads and using them against a live resisting target, the aim of sparring isnt to kill eachother but to practice techniques and get a feel for new ideas practiced in training. Make sure (if you have a choice, which some people dont unfortunately) that you sparring partner is roughly the same weight and skill level as you, you will also want to spar in fairly heavy gloves 12-14 ounce should to the job, headguards arent compulsary but you can use them if you want and make sure you have your mouthpiece in unless you want to end up having a locking jaw, like myself .
Whether you run or not is up to you but I advise it, in the longer rounds when you need your legs you will thank yourself for it, 3 miles 3 times a week is a nice length for amatuers, time yourself if you like but at first dont focus on beating your time till you get used to it. Make sure you control your breathing when running, the best time to run is early on a morning because there is usually less traffic and fumes oh and of course less dogs .
Well ive gone over some very basic drills for a typical boxing session, again if there is anything specific you want covering please ask.
Until later, take care and train hard
-Great thread ‘Umy’!…
I got a question for ya,
I know you discussed counter punching earlier,
but along that same line is there also ways to ‘read’
any of the known punches when there about to be coming?
-This would give yourself a quicker counter punching reaction
and give you the upperhand in a fight.
Thanks, keep up the good work.>
Well this is something that will only really come with practice, specific punches are blocked in specific ways.
When fighters are taught to block and parry in our gym fighters take turns in either throwing or defending against punches we first go through the motions slowly so that the newer fighter gets a feel for the blocks and also the other fighter gets to focus on correct technique when throwing the shots, as time goes by you start to see these punches coming and start blocking them without even knowing you are, this is when your defensive techniques start to become more like second nature to you.
How long it takes depends on how long you drill for. Mike tyson has amazing reflexes and many try to imitate his slipping, bobbing and weaving style with little success, it is said that Cus Damato (Tysons trainer) made Mike slip, bob and weave against his sparring partners and not throw a single punch for 2 years, also if any of you have seen mike on his slip bag (small tear shaped bag full of rags or sand about the size of a hand that swings rapidly) you would know why his defensive skills were so good.
Another method other than blocking and parrying are corner drills, one person stands in a corner whilst another throws shots at them, this will help develop head movement and defense in general and will help kill the habit of flinching when being punched and also getting used to being pressurised.
Range is another important thing, you should know what punches to deal with in what range you are in (close = hooks, uppercuts. medium = crosses, jabs, Far = jabs ect)
Finally telegraphing, if you opponent telegraphs you will be able to see things coming, an old saying in boxing is to read the hips, if you do you will know that a punch will be coming from the side thats moving.
Hope it helps,
anything else needed just ask (except for money )>
-Great info ‘Umy’, thanks.>
anytime bro :wink:>
…another question for the King…
-Boxers only have one stance, right?
I mean they don’t switch stance or maybe some do?
It depends on what you mean by one stance, we are taught one way to stand, but we could have 2 (orthodox or left hand in front and southpaw or right hand in front).
Also some fighters are taught more of a peek-a-boo type stance to that of the traditional boxing stance, some fighters change the way they hold their guard depending on their opponent, for example a smaller fighter keeping his hands a touch higher (or in most cases crouching a bit more) against a taller fighter to protect his head, a taller fighter standing a lot more straight enabling him to use his reach and height over a shorter boxer, tightening you guard against an aggressive opponent etc.
I think I have covered the basic stance in a bit of detail in this article:
hope it helps
-Yeah. That’s what I meant,
either an Orthodox or Southpaw stance.
They don’t switch them up.
Thanx. Great info as always.>
-…Just off the top of my head,
This is totally hypothetical but possible, with two fighters for all purposes being equal, except that (F1) is an inside fighter, and (F2) is an outside fighter, who would you hedge your bets on?
I dont think its a case of what range they are good in but more of a case of how well they can keep that range.
So to answer your question the guy who keeps the range he works best at.
I think its pretty hard to judge a fight from that perspective, I think id have to have some basic info on the fighters first.
Plus, im not much of a betting man :wink:>
This is a great Q & A thread you got here,
’cause I got a boatload of questions (well a few anyway).
– When doing rounds on the heavy bag, should you work up to rounds
as the pros: 12-15 rds, 3minutes ea.? Would that be a solid long term goal?,
or varying the time of the rounds be better, say a few 3 minute rds.
then maybe a 4 minute maybe up to a 5 minute round?
Comments totally appreciated.
Train how you fight, if you fight 3 minutes then do 3 minutes, do it until you feel you have worked enough, remember though 12 rounds is 36 minutes, plus the minute or so between rounds, if you want to spend that much time on the bag its up to you, personally id only spend half the time on the bags as long as im working hard I dont think I would really last 36 minutes on the bag (ie working at a moderate pace, not throwing 3 or 4 punches then stopping and shuffling around for 20 seconds).>
Post: The BadBoy:
I just read the King’s article on the boxing stance,
,and with would like to add a few additions to it.
All that was said in the article is good, especially the bit about youngsters coming into the gym and wanting to imitate their heros like Naz and Ali but soon realise that they neither have the skill nor the physical ability to do so.
But that said, I feel that the subject of body positioning and its relationship to how to minimise the target area you present to your opponent would be a beneficial topic to touch upon.
So Umy bro, I hope you don’t mind me adding this post to your excellent thread. I’m gonna break my post up into a number of posts to make them easier to read.
MY COACH ONCE SAID TO ME THAT BOXING IS THE NOBLE ART OF SELF DEFENCE – TH WAY TO WIN IS TO REMEMBER THE BASICS AND IF YOUR OPPONENT DOES NOT THEN THAT IS THE TIME TO STRIKE.
So here are the basics of body potioning in addition to what Umy has said in his article.>
Post: The BadBoy:
Lets begin with the head, you should always keep your chin tucked in. An agressor who comes at you with his head up and body leaning forward is an idiot who is asking to be KTFO.
Keep your chin tucked into the groove at the top of your chest, you should be looking at your opponent through the dark shadow of your eyebrows.
When you throw punches keep your head tucked in, its doesn’t move. But your shoulder does. For example when your throw a hook teh gap between your shoulder and chin should be fully closed. At the final point of delivery you should be looking over your shoulder at your opponent. Use your shoulders to aid in greater power and defence.
If any punches do get through they will hit your forehead. This is the hardest part of your skull and you will soon realise that taking a punch on your forehead is not biggy compared to getting hit in the jaw.>
Post: The BadBoy:
Keep your elbows down. If you lift your elbows you expose yourself to those viscous, viscous shots under the heart and to the liver. Trust me you do not want to get hit by these. Your elbows should be down but not resting on your body.>
Post: The BadBoy:
The torso should not be squared on to your opponent and thus fully exposed. Turn it at an angle so that you lead hand is in an advanced position and your rear hand is close to your chin to protect it and yet cocked to explode on your opponent when th eopportunity arises. by doing this you will effectively half the traget area you have presented to your advisary.
If there is anything that you want to add or that you don’t agree with please add your thoughts.>
Thanks bro, i really appreciate it.
If any of you have anything you want to add to this thread please do, plus im sure you guys are getting sick of hearing me all the time :wink:>
Just to add to the body being turned off and elbows being tucked in remember this, you can shake off blows to the head but not the body, if you take a lot of body shots early on in later rounds you will find your legs wont be with you and you’ll be a lot more worn out.>
Hey UMY, I have a question about hand conditioning and knuckles.
Although I stopped the sweet science for about 6 months to try my hand at traditional martial arts, I started to notice an issue with my knuckles in the last year or two of my boxing. Once my hands, wrists, and knuckles got really tough, I started practicing without gloves or wraps. I’ve never injured the knuckles because I had a good instructor early on and he taught me to punch square and always aiming with ring finger knuckle. Over time I noticed that my ring finger knuckle and my pinky knuckle have slowly worn down become…. flat. Totally flat. There are no visible knucles left on the last two fingers of both hands. Now that I’ve started full contact, combat Tai Chi boxing and freestyling I’ve been doing lots of iron palm stuff as well. This made the knuckles even flatter. There’s no pain… yet. But it’s getting me worried. If you have any thoughts about this or any advice it would be much appreciated. Thanks.>
My knuckles changed shape over time when I used to condition my hands, I dont think its anything serious that you should worry about as long as you arent rushing your conditioning, which is a huge mistake many make and regret in later time, do not, i repeat do not just rush into hand conditioning as you will regret it. I asked Matt’s Sensei, Wali Islam (who used to be the old ‘ask sensei’ ) about hand conditioning when I was a newbie to the site and that is the advice he gave me, dont over do it and to be patient, it may not seem like a lot but those small words will save you a lot of pain later on in life.
I have a bag filled with sand and small jagged stones which hangs from a wall in my bedroom, everytime I come in and out I will hit it several times, over a period of about a year my hands are now strong enough to strike most hard surfaces and my wrists (from heavybag hitting) can also take a lot of pressure.
This has also helped my boxing as well, I can now hit my opponent without fear of hurting my knuckles and wrists which is often a fear of many fighters (a lot of people I train with have had hand injuries from hitting opponents, even with gloves on).
If you do think there is a serious problem, which from your description may not be the case then I would strongly reccomend seeing a doctor, thats probably the best advice I can give because 1) im not a doctor and 2) I cant really see your hands
Hope it helps,>
I have a question for you guys, where were you taught to keep your eyes?
I was interested to know this as I was always taught to keep my chin tucked in and to look through my eyebrows, i often look at my opponents chest and play about with my eyes now and then.
I dont usually bother with it as my peripheral vision helps me see most things that are thrown anyway.
Interested in hearing your views on the subject.>
Liking your new avatar mate. BTW wot happened 2 your site?
back on topic…Eyes.
I look at the chest and shoulders and sometimes elbows then come up to look them in the eye from time to time. It really is different when sparing with and without weaponry as eye contact seems to happen more frequently with weapons. I guess its because the body gives more away when striking, but I dont really aim to look at one point personally.>
As for my avatar I thank badboy, he recommended it
yeah same here really, I was just wondering as ive been asked this a few times, I often use the eyes to an advantage though (feinting with my eyes) by looking at the chest and striking to the head and vice versa, works for the odd shot but once they have sussed it aint too good.>
Post: The BadBoy:
I usually just look at the guy but not concentrate on any area if you know what I mean. Just let the peripheral vision do its thing.
My old coach always used to say to look at the guys chest though. If the chest flexs, a punch is coming. Fair enough when your boxing, but it doesn’t tell you if he’s gonna throw a kick.>
I should add that on street when I know its gonna kick off I will look directly at a mans chin before and as I hit it.>
the street is a different ball game all together I suppose.
When shat hits the fan, for some reason, i doubt ill be thinking where I should put my eyes
Anyway keep the questions and answers coming guys :wink:>
i was just wondering about your guys’ opinion on the significance of footwork. it always seems that boxers fighting a boxing match are always on their toes as compared to boxers in an mma match. should it really be changing? or should the significance of footworkd always be there? just asking your opinions>
Whether or not your art stresses it, footwork is critical no matter what you’re doing. I’m not sure which of these is the reason behind the different stance, but boxers in an MMA match have to worry about takedowns and kicks, and both of those change the strategy and stance pretty drastically.>
Gong sao basically covered it, ive had a few crappy little challenge matches with lads from other arts and footwork wasnt an issue as they couldnt often handle the pressure and aggression i was putting onto them so the matches ended pretty quickly. Also being able to move around well helped a lot.
As for MMA its a whole new game, you make most out of your strong points and work on your weak points, I think footwork will change a lot from boxing to MMA as its such a huge jump from being able to throw punches to being able to throw kicks, knees and taking the fight to the ground.
Boxers are like regular basketball players they play with one ball, in MMA its like your playing with 5 or 6, a whole new game.>
Post: The BadBoy:
The fundamentals for footwork in MMA stay the same as most other combat sports as in to move forward the front foot moves then step with with rear. To move left left foot moves then step over with right. Never cross feet etc.
The difference comes in when you look at weight distribution, stance and even the number of punches you throw.
Having too much weight on your front leg for example will leave you open to singles legs takedown, leg kicks etc. Unless your stance is more square on you wont be able to sprawl as effectively. Also head kicks will more likely catch you on the back of the head . Stepping forward with the jab can cause you to get that leg kicked out from right under you.
Its things like this that cause your movement to change, but footwork in its principles remains the same.
I started boxing again recently and i’m getting beat up simply because my game has changed so much since I started training in MMA. I’m just gonna shoot in on the guy and GnP him next time.>
I had the same problem, I had to unlearn my kickboxing which had a few differences and the learn the boxing stance and all the technique with it :roll:>
[quote=The BadBoy I’m just gonna shoot in on the guy and GnP him next time.[/quote
I’ve done that before in sparring at various schools. Eventually I get bored of stand up and just take him down… gets some strange looks when i do it :mrgreen:>
- ‘Umy’, I have a question about weight classes in pro-boxing.
Most weight class seem to be separated by about 8 lbs. or so. Does that extra weight give an advantage to the heavier boxer, just look at Roy Jones Jr. vs. Ruiz
he beat him and that was a big difference in weight. Any thoughts about weight class?
Cheers bro. :mrgreen:>
Post: The BadBoy:
Bottom line, if you’ve got two guys who match up quite evenly in skill then the bigger stronger guy is most like gonna win. He has better physical attributes that will make him more dominant in both punching power and strength.>
-Yes that’s true. All things being equal the larger fighter will probably win because he has stronger abilities.
Just how much of a difference does it make for some skilled fighter to go up in weight class though?
Weight really comes into play in a fight when the difference is 10 lbs. and up.
If you have two fighters that are about 5-7 lbs. difference that’s not going to be much variance to who has the edge in weight. IMHO
Post: The BadBoy:
Boxers that have moved up in weight class have not suddenly decided one day that they are gonna move up in wieght. They have done it over years of hard training where their bodies have slowly developed and matured.
The usual reason is that the boxer has developed too much for the weight class he was in and is stuggling making weight for the class he was in. the natural progression is to move up in weight.>
Ive always had the speed over guys who have been heavier than me but they are often stronger and hit a lot harder.
Again I think it depends on the individual you find yourself facing, also their style of fighting.
When you move up or down your always sacrificing something and gaining in something else, you have to learn to adapt to that new weight.
A lot have fighters have moved from the lower divisions to higher divisions and vice versa, roy jones jr is one example, he had the speed of some fighters in lower classes but many didnt know whether or not he would be able to take punches from heavyweights.
On a more personal note ive often beaten larger and often stronger opponents simply by speed and beating them to the punch.
What ive learnt from my 100+ fight collection is that as you move up in weight generally the punches thrown decrease in number (man im smart )>
Great points as always badboy, one person who comes to mind and who made his weight naturally is evander holyfield.
Just a bit off topic but roy jones jr confessed to the use of steroids in order to move up weight .>
umy, how can a skinny guy like diego corrales (6’1″, 134 lbs) throw such powerful inside (short) punches? i’m a great believer in the development of explosive trunk rotation power, but corrales amazes me. he’s a skinny guy, but he frequently sent guys to the mat with short inside punches. how does he do it?>
Its all about correct technique, my coach used to tell me it will only take you 3 inches to knock a guy out, what he meant by 3 inches was the quick short movement of the hips in a strike, the quicker the twist, the quicker the knockout
Also another thing we have to remember is practice, if you see how hard these guys train you wouldnt wonder why they are so powerful, to quote Jack Dempsey ‘punchers are made, not born’.
I have personally been on the recieving end of blows from lads 6’3 196 lbs and laughed and have been stunned by 5’5 112 lbs kids with good hip movement, in boxing, it’s all in the hips.
Another thing that adds to the punch is speed, like they say its the punch you dont see coming that knocks you out, sometimes its the shock that adds to the knockout more than the power itself.>
I decided to write a very short article on different typed of boxers and how you deal with each.
I classify boxers into 3 main categories: Boxers, Fighters and Counter punchers . I will briefly cover each type of fighter and give some ways of dealing with each style.
Boxers are fighters who put the sweet in the sweet science, boxers stick to the textbook and sometimes bend the rules in order to win fights. Tell tale signs of boxers are often a good jab, good rythm and fighters who think a lot as opposed to running in. Examples of boxers at the moment will be fighters like Roy Jones Jr, Floyd Mayweather Jr. Some of my favourite boxers were sugar ray robinson, sugar ray leonard and Ali.
Fighters, or punchers as they are often called are boxers who are often aggressive and like to bully and push their way into a fight, some enjoy controlling the fights (Mike Tyson for example) and others sometimes looks for that big punch (David Tua now and then). The problem you have with fighting a puncher is because they specialise in power punching and are KO artists they can come out of no where with a bomb of a shot and put you on canvas. Out boxing a fighter (Lewis vs Tyson) is often a good strategy, as they used to say fight a boxer, box a fighter.
Counter punchers are the hardest fighter to deal with, they throw few punches and would rather wait for you to slip and make a mistake and nail you with a shot. Counter punchers will often take 3 or 4 punches from you just to throw 1, but when it lands you will find that the accuracy will help increase the pain, an example of counter punchers are chris byrd, eamon magee . I think the key to beating a counter puncher is to make them open up by using your jab, also opening up their guard with feints (legs and hands )
Any questions on strategy please ask….>
Post: Iron Knuckles:
In your home gym post you made no mention of a speed bag and don’t seem to emphasize it at all throughout. Is this something you normally include in your workout, or does it really not serve much of a purpose at all?>
I dont use a speedbag very often because im using other pieces of equipment in training, I dont think the speedbag is that great personally, ive seen people get a lot faster just by using the double end bag and doing padwork.
The speedbag is good for increasing speed, learnining to keep your hands up and good for hand eye co-ordintation. I personally didnt mention it in my article because I just dont use one much but again, it has its uses.>
Post: Iron Knuckles:
Alright, thanks Umy>
your welcome bro :wink:>
-…Gotta a question for ya, in a street fight I was wondering how does a fighter battle against the ‘berzerker’ some guys come at you with- arms swinging every which way- no style, but a lot of wild, swinging arms, how is someone supposed to battle that?
Thanks again. Cheers
ps: ( Sorry, if this has been covered on another thread.)>
Ive been in plenty of sparring sessions that have quickly turned into ‘wars’ after the first hard shot landed, in the ring you have a few options (this applies to anyone who finds themselves fighting aggressive opponents as well) you can either side step out of the way of your opponent (think bull and matador) you can tie up ‘your opponent’ so they cant punch you (arms under theirs and hips pushing against them), you can cover up and move or bob and weave, you can tie up and spin round your opponent (which is handy if your stuck in a corner and need to get out) or if all else fails you can fire back and hope for the best.
Thats the ring, the street is different, on the other hand the last time someone tried to use the ‘old pshyco haymaker attack’ I hit straight through the middle with a right hand on the button.
I suppose you get used to it, someone going crazy and throwing wild haymakers at you is nothing new to me, ive sparred with newbies who fight in a similar way even seen it happen as a desperation, when someone knows they are getting beat and need a KO or at least a few nice shots.
There is no one answer to sum it up, I simply fire back but hey thats me, thats the way ive found most comfortable and effective for myself.
The idea is similar to JKD’s, its your own way of doing things, you’ll find out by being there.
Or as matt would say ‘go train’ :wink:>
-2 questions about punches:
— (1) What exactly is a ‘haymaker’? I’ve heard the term, but what is it?
And (2), is there such a punch as an overhand right, it sounds like a
Thanks for the info.>
A haymaker is a wild hook, the type of hook you would typically see thrown in a streetfight, they are the ‘wild swings’ you asked about in the last question.
As for the overhand right, yeah it exists, it is very similar to a cross but is thrown at different times, it is often thrown over the jab of and opponent, Lennox Lewis had a good overhand right.>
I have a pretty good idea of counter punching and how to use it while fighting. I also know that counters tend to differ from person to person depending on their strengths and weaknesses. Umy, could list out your favorite counter punches to use against various punches? ie, my opponent is throwing a jab do you counter over the top with a straight right? or do knock the jab down with your right and fire a right straight?>
Again like you said it really is up to an individual’s style and what they prefer.
For me I never have anything set in concrete I just do what comes naturally.
I tend to block and parry a lot more than evade punches using head movement, this is one big factor by itself as you will have both hands free to do what you like when slipping and bobbing and weaving.
For the jab (orthodox fighter): tap it down with lead hand and then counter with your own jab (off same hand)
Slip to right, left jab to body
For cross: tap down with right hand and counter with left hook or jab
Slip to left and counter with right hand to body (make sure you have one mitt near your face as a backup)
For left hooks: block with right arm and counter with jab
Duck and counter with left hook
For right hooks: Block with left arm and counter with a cross
Duck under and counter with hook from either hand
Uppercuts: block and counter with a straight punch or hook.
Again its pretty brief and its just me, others may differ drastically, it works for me but might not be other fighters cup of tea.
Hope it helps
Great post. I tend to block and pary a lot more myself as well. Vs a jab or left straight to the chin I like to cuff to redirect it past my head to the right and fire a left straight right down the middle (usually mid-section or chin) and follow that up with a right hook. That or i fire a right straight over the top if the guy is sending half-assed jabs at me.
For hooks I pretty much do the same as you, either block same side and counter with opposite, or i bob under to the outside and fire off a straight from the same side.>
Off topic but…
One thing people often find hard to block and dont see coming are doubled up hooks, usually a hook to the body then head (off the same hand), thats one combo I often use a lot in sparring.>
Post: The BadBoy:
I’d like to add something to the counter punching bit. Like Umy, who seems to be a great student of the game, especially seeing how my lil bro is only 16 said. There aren’t really any set responses to punches for counters, it goes with personal preference.
One great tool i like to use is a mirror. Shadow box infront of the mirror observing the places you open up when you make every punch. These are more than likely gonna be the same for your opponent.
Take what you’ve found and drill resposes from those angles with a partner. Work counter shots for all these punches, you know the angles that are open so respond accordingly. Drill, drill, drill. Then watch your game blow up in your opponents face.>
I think the mirror is the greatest tool a beginner has, you dont even need a bag or anything until you can throw punches with fairly decent form, one way of checking this is with a mirror.
It will also help you see where your feet are and how your stance is looking and will also (like badboy said) show if there are any openenings in your guard.>
Post: The BadBoy:
Difference between rear cross and rear overhand
Posted on teh boxing forum at mma.tv by 1groovyunit.
“Someone asked about the overhand right and the differences betwen that and the cross on the BJJ forum. I figured I would copy and paste the answer here too (this being the boxing forum and all!)
The cross is a straight right hand. You are sinking your hips, turning your hips and body and driving the power up from the floor through your body and into the opponent’s head. It’s a powerhouse punch and a lot of people’s bread and butter. Best set up with a double jab, jab and fake or as a counter to one of your opponent’s straight punches.
The overhand is rather unorthodox. It’s very effective if thrown, timed and connected properly but those three factors have to be perfect or you will find yourself off balance and wide open to be taken down or counterpunched by a skilled opponent.
The overhand right is best thrown as a secondary or tertiary punch into a simple combination. Never try to lead with it. The only time I would try to counter with it is if I were fighting a southpaw and stepping/dipping away from his jab (I am an orthodox boxer) and he was less skilled than I. Best done just after the opponent finalizes a combination and you slip or successfully parry/defend against his combo. Best followed up by a hook (most people think an uppercut is the best follow-up, but the weight shift on a proper overhand right is pretty dramatic, setting you up perfectly to throw a hook)
DON’T make the mistake of thinking that an overhand right has the same body mechanics as a cross with a looping trajectory. It absolutely does not. I’ll walk you through the mechanics:
Your combination will be: Jab-Cross-Hook-Overhand Right-Hook from an orthodox stance (left hand/left foot forward). This will get you ‘in tune’ with the proper body mechanics. Now, jab, then when you cross you want to turn your hips all the way over and turn your shoulder all the way. All of your weight should be on your FRONT foot. I should be able to kick your back leg out from under you without you falling. Now, when you hook, step to the right side with all of your weight onto your RIGHT LEG. Your hips should be turned all the way to the right, and your right hand should be like you are on the phone. Now when you throw the overhand right you are going to transfer all of your weight back onto your left foot but instead of stepping your left foot forward you will step it to the left side. Twist your body to the left so your right shoulder is reaching toward the target when you throw it. When you complete this punch your chin should be in your right shoulder, and your left hand should be like you are on the phone. When you throw the last hook transfer weight back to your right leg.
The motions sound more dramatic in a written description than they actually are. Anyway, if you are training in MMA or are new to boxing I would stick with the cross for a long time until you can land it at will. It’s got dynamite stopping power and sets up the hook beautifully. >
thanks for that badboy :wink:>
Its been a while since ive had time to post anything remotely helpful so ive decided to cover the topic of home traning again.
Now many of you will probably be unaware of the fact that my gym closed down a few months ago.
I found myself at those crossroads and asked myself hundreds of times ”what to do next?” .
My options were to join another gym in town, there are 3 good boxing gyms in town, but there was a catch, you had to fight for the club most of the time in order to train there. This wasnt possible due to my jaw condition so that was ruled out. I could have taken up another art but with my exams coming up I realised I wouldnt have the time for that either so I decided to do what people said couldnt be done, keep my skills up alone at home….
I first asked what a gym had that I didnt, I came up with:
That was about it.
I realised from the beginning that I would need human contact in order to maintain my skills, this wasnt a problem as I had contact details of all my sparring partners and training partners, as well as a few lads who liked the idea of sparring.
Next I needed a routine similar to that of the gym, so I basically mimiked what was working for me in the gym and added it to what I used to get results from and made sure I included a full range of activites to keep my level of fitness up including, weight training, plyometrics, interval training (with traditional roadwork), bodyweight exercises, skill training ect..
As for the coach one can be suprised at what we can use to help us these days.
For imitating padwork I would use the old numbered bag drill ive covered a few times (number certain punches on certain areas of the bag, record your voice shouting out these numbers imitating a padwork drill and away you go). The downside to this is as you have no-one to give feedback you errors may start to shine through without notice.
One way to combat this it to film yourself shadowboxing/sparring, this way you can see where you are going wrong.
I also purchased myself a bag as I felt bagwork is a key part of boxing training, after learning to punch we are given an immoblie target (the bag) to hit, then we take what we learn on the bag and apply it to a moving target, the focus mitts and finally we apply this to sparring. Its important that we take all of these steps when training at home in order to get the most out of our time and keep our skills up till we find another gym/dojo.
This is a big problem for many, they feel they cant get motivated enough to train by themselves.
I often ask them why they trained in the first place, as once they answer this they can realise whether or not they have any goals to achieve or not.
If they dont they should set themselves a few, attainable, goals to meet, this will keep them on track and give them something to train for.
Finally ive managed to keep myself in great shape and am still as good as I was a few months ago due to my regular sparring sessions and training routine.
Anyway thats enough for now, if any of you have any questions ill hopefully get back to you in a few days.
I know this is a bit off the reg q & a questions, but I was wondering a few things.
1. Im 6’3, round 170, with history in mma and basketball/football, due to circumstances, cannot play the latter two anymore, so im interested in boxing to continue the competitive aspect and keep myself in shape, ive downed the basics, but was wonderin how much my frame would help/not help me in the ring.
2. With my other sports, certain bodyparts are more built than others, for ex. my arms, chest, shoulders, back n neck are extremely well maintained, so im sure thatll help, but was lookin for a more balanced boxing build to distribute everythin like it should be. (simple workouts etc)
and Lastly, sence my other sports focused more on speed to my frame than power, how could I keep the speed I currently have, while constantly increasing my power other than my hip motions during fights?
I know this is long, but every bit of help is appreciated, nice thread, an continue the great work guys.>
Firstly the question is ok as I have a bit more time now my exams are finished (gets out the flags)
Now onto your question,
To be honest 6’3 and 170lbs seems okay to me, at the end of the day it really does depend on a lot of factors anyway, (your style, size compared to others in weight class ect).
Classic example, Mr Mike Tyson who is 6’1 and 200 and something pounds. Its not your size you should really be worrying about, its how you use what you are given to the best of your abillity (for example tyson used to complain he was short but soon discovered because of this fighters found it harder to hit him and he also had a lower center or gravity than them which helped with his punches). Once you get set out your coach will most likely teach you to use your body to the best of your abilitly anyway.
As for the whole hand speed and power thing, I got a LOT faster AND stronger in the first 6 months or so of boxing, you will see big increases anyway so I wouldnt be to worried about loosing handspeed. Power and speed come with practice and increase over time, this is the most important point to realise first before anything else.
However if you do reach a point where you intend to focus on increasing your power later on in your boxing time (which I wouldnt bother with if I was just starting with things, instead Id focus on correct technique and pick up what I can) using weights or other methods, just take a specific day to work your hand speed and emphisise speed in your work.
For example I was using a push/pull legs routine whilst I was on the weights to help improve my power, I would train on a mon and fri on the weights and on wednesdays I would work solely on speed as opposed to power, this meant more shadowboxing, heavier gloves when using the bags, working on speed as opposed to working on power on the bags and pads ect. By doing this I saw an increase in power and still managed to maintain my handspeed, unlike many people would have you believe.
As for a specific routine I recived good advice from alex a while ago on what my weight routine should look like for a boxer, here is a basic push/pull/legs routine:
Obviously if your in the boxing gym after a workout on the weights you may want to try and watch how hard you push yourself and make sure you are getting plenty or rest and good food into you.
To be quite honest, although the weights will help increase your strength and power I would first make sure you are punching with correct technique and getting the most out of your bodyweight into your shots, many people look for alternative methods of increasing power instead of sticking to the heavy bag work and other drills that have worked for others for years, but again, to each his own.
I hope this helps, need anything else please ask and Ill get back to you as soon as I can…
I’m really interested in boxing. It looks very physically demanding and a great way to build endurance and coodination. I recieved a heavy bag as a gift from my dad last year. I threw caution to the wind and struck the bag as long and quickly as I could for a work out, but soon gave up on using it after I started to become way too exhausted coming home from school.
It’s kind of strange for a girl to box, and my old man would rather me not….so I guess I’ll have to settle for just “Shadow Boxing”. Can any of you guys make some sort of guide with tips for me, listing instructions for correct form, punch execution, breathing, movement, tips, etc.? Or maybe direct me to a really great reference?
Thanks for your time. :D>
Unfortunately its extremely extremely (notice the repetition ) hard to learn to box with good form alone, without someone who knows their stuff.
It’s kind of strange for a girl to box
There is nothing wrong for a female to box, infact id actually encourage you more so if you have an interest in boxing to visit your local gym.
The reason for this is, yes, you are more likely to find a gym full of males rather than females as this is a male dominated sport. However, you will get a lot more attention as a female and will progress a lot quicker because of it.
If your dad is worried about you fighting, you dont have to fight, heck, you dont even have to spar if you dont want to, as long as you let the trainer at the gym know what you want from the gym 9 out of 10 times they will agree and respect your choice.
And just for the count ive had 2 sparring sessions female training partners and I got my ass handed to me in both
As for the bare basics of boxing, ive typed up a few articles on the basic stance so have a look at those if you like, im sure you’ll pick up a lot by reading this thread as it has a lot of info in it on the basics (thanks to everyone who’s added to it).
Here are a few points to consider when working on the bag:
Keep your hands up!
Chin tucked in
Keep your stance, dont stand square on facing the bag as you will get bad habits
Use your hips to get maximum force
Move around, never stand in the same place for too long
Change your head height, and when you throw a body shot ‘go down’ to the body, dont stand up straight.
Keep your rear heal raised just as you would in any other drill, also keep a slight bend in your front knee
Take your time when starting and slowly build up speed and power as you get into things, nothing worse than jumping onto the bag while your muscles are still cold and going wild.
Treat your bag as an opponent, meaning no 50 hit combinations
Bob and weave, slip and duck, which I think ive already mentioned
If you want to know anything else specific just let me know, also those points apply to shadowboxing and most drills as well, they are the main points that beginners often need to work on.>
“And just for the count ive had 2 sparring sessions female training partners and I got my ass handed to me in both “
Thanks for your help, Umy. I wasn’t really expecting such a positive reply.
By the way, should I be corkscrewing my punches? I have a few friends in striking MAs, and they say that corkscrewing a punch could result in damage to the wrist and arm..>
I wouldnt really recommend it too much if your just starting out, corckscrew hooks are about the only punch you would corckscrew your fist in, normal hooks are thrown with the arm locked, uppercuts and straight punches shouldnt be corckscrewed either.>
Well once again, it has been a while since ive posted anything on this site that has been remotely helpful to anyone so here I am in an attempt to add something useful to this part of the forum, however as its a theory it probably wont help anyone
I was at college recently having a conversation with a friend of mine who is a brown belt in wado ryu (sp??) style of karate, he asked me probably the most intelligent question id heard for a month (the norms usually were, how dya get a solid punch mate? or have you ever broken anyones nose?), he said ‘what is the process a boxer goes through in order to take a technique from his coach to and apply it to sparring?’
So here I am answering this ‘worth 5 minutes’ question and below you will see my crazy retarded theory of how it does work:
A boxer learns and practices technique through the 4 main drills used in boxing training (duh):
Shadowboxing = You are taught basic form, how the punch should feel, making sure you get all the basics right before moving on
Bagwork = You now apply this new movement on a non-moving target, again you focus on applying correct form and get used to hitting something solid with the new technique.
Padwork = You now apply your technique/s to a moving target, this time the target may fire back a few shots and give verbal feedback on your form.
Sparring = you now put together all the skills you learn from the above against a fully moving and resisting target. This teaches you to distinguish what works for you and what doesnt, and gives you the chance to test out the fresh techniques on a real opponent.
I believe that where many arts go wrong is that they miss steps out, so a student isnt confident of taking what they no straight from maybe, set forms, straight to sparring. (forgive me im fasting )>
Post: The BadBoy:
Well put bro, four simple steps that when read out load seem so simple its stupid but how many times people don’t understand what they’re there for, I lost count. Knowing why these drills are there help you to structure your training around the goals you need to achieve the final atep of being able to make a technique yours.
Although to tell you the truth I was never strictly tought a technique in a boxing gym for shadowboxing. We just hit the pads and sparred. getting hit made you tighten up your defence and the coach gave you lil pointers thoughout to get your technique together.
I think that’s the difference between instruction and coaching. In boxing you get coaches who let you make the mistakes and give you a lil pointer to help you solve th eproblems.>
I also like the idea of coaching as very often an ‘instructor’ can let the title get to his head, whereas a coach is just there to give pointers and also take them.>
[quote=spired I have a question… I have problems with throwing counter punches, because I’m affraid to get hit with left or right jab’s….[/quote
There’s an old saying here: ‘If you can’t fight, wear a big hat!’>
Umy mate hows tricks! You still boxing?…you will get used to Graham1’s sense of humour. It gets better
Can I ask a question? – Diet! Do you consider it? Is there anything specific or slightly of centre that you might take in?>
Im good thanks bro, im rarely on the site these days and am busy with my studies.
Diet is an important part of a fighters lifestyle, as the old cliche says you are what you eat, which remains true to the core.
I personally believe that an individual shouldnt be too harsh on what they eat as a diet then becomes too hard to keep up. I eat ”healthy” 6 days a week with one day off where i let myself go a little bit (also known as a ”cheat day” by many).
Basically I dont do anything special, just eat a lot of fruit and veg, drink plenty of water, stay away from processed foods as much as I can and try not to eat things containing a lot of saturated fat.
A lot problems come to people trying to meet certain weights, again, off season people can afford to let themselves go a bit more but the fundamentals should really remain the same. During boxing season a lot of care must be put on staying close to fighting weight, a lot of people put themselves under too much pressure in training, or the opposite, put too much pressure in their diet, a balance should be maintained between the 2 in order to maintain the right weight, as long as you eat healthy and do your roadwork you should be okay.
Hope it answers your question,
cheers, thats good stuff. Good to hear you are putting your studies first mate, keep at it.
Is there an alternative to roadwork? Its always been synonomous with boxing but is there another form of exercise that can achieve the similar results?>
Roadwork is amazing for its mental benefits just as well as its physical, an individual can really carve out a strong will pushing himself on the roads and discover how far the his body can go when he seems like he has nothing left.
However other cardio methods such as using an exercise bike, rowing machine, treadmill, stepper, elliptical machine, skipping, bagwork, shadowboxing with 12oz gloves all seem to work just fine as long as your listening to your body and working regularly as possible.
Fitness and making weight are 2 different things I suppose, I dont know how safe it is but whenever I had the flu or went a bit crazy on the dining table I used to train with a few layers on and this would really help you sweat, as long as your keeping yourself fairly well hydrated you should be ok.
Sprints mixed with long distance runs work wonders for endurance also, but again its generally whatever works for you so experiment away, we learn by doing.
Hope it helps,
Post: The BadBoy:
This is an excellent thread and in Umy’s absence I would like to say that if anyone has any further questions they would like to ask I will do my best to keep this Q&A going. Hopefully Umy will be back soon to take over the fine work he has started in this thread.>
What are some good foods to eat while boxing?>
Post: The BadBoy:
Godo foods to eat while boxing? I would advise that you don’t eat anything while your boxing you might throw up, or worse still get punched in the face while your taking a bite out of that apple.
If your asking what your diet should look like then basically it depends on what your goals are. I would just try to eat clean food that are not processed.
Try to a get variety of of different fruits and vegetables in your diet, get your protien from chicken, fish, lean red meat. Personally I’m not a fan of beef, too much in my opinion isn’t good for you.
Stay away from trans fats etc. Follow the fundamentals of a healthy diet and you’ll be fine.>