Does the Bit Cha Gi even exist anymore?
Original Poster: Darkender
Forum: Korean Martial Arts
Posted On: 24-03-2007, 10:05
Orginal Post: Darkender: I’ve always been curious as to the popularity of the bit cha gi (sometimes referred to as the diagonal kick) amongst korean styles.
My curiousity stems from the fact that I view this kick as being a very versatile albeit somewhat risky kick to use (that alone may be the reason that it is not used) however it is hardly ever practiced in my dojang, used in any sort of sparring, or appear in any sort of Tang Soo Do hyung that I’ve ever come across.
Have you tried to implement it into your sparring practice?
Try it out a during your next 4-5 weeks worth of sessions, take notes immediatly after and write up your findings. I think that would be a very interesting article.
My own opinion, its too flashy to pull off.
I have never heard of this kick. Could you describe it?>
[quote=shurite44 I have never heard of this kick. Could you describe it?[/quote
Okay, I feel retarded… I thought you guys were asking about a uniform!!! :lol:>
I think maybe it is what we always call the “opposite roundhouse kick. It is done somewhat like an outside crescent kick, but more bent leg, more like a snap kick, and the foot position is slightly different.
I use that a lot for point tournaments, not real powerful but if you practice you can get enough snap to get a point.
When I am in a stance with my opponent where we have our backs facing the same wall, I call this a closed stance. I throw the opposite round kick to the midsection and follow through for a quick round kick to the back of the head. Good point fighting combination.
Edit: This same combo can be done from a open stance off the back leg also. Same thing just bring the knee across like a round kick, but don’t throw it, then use the opposite round kick as above.>
First off, my apologies for the extremely late response, I have been relatively busy with school amongst other things.
Shurite, it sounds like your opposite round kick would be a relatively accurate description of what I call the diagonal kick. The way that I throw the kick is indeed similar to an inside-outside crescent, but I also stand up on the toes of my base leg and stick out the hip of the kicking leg while I tilt my entire body to the side of the kicking leg. As said, it can be a very nifty kick in point-sparring, but I’ve also come to appreciate as a kick that can be thrown in a multitude of situations. Also, after a bit of practice with it, I’ve been able to put a considerable amount of power behind it. It’s nothing at the level of a turning back kick, but strong enough to watch out for.
This picture is the closest that I could find of a bit cha ki, but keep in mind it’s a very aesthetic version of the kick so the individual throwing the kick has his hip way out and he is leaning way back. http://www.tangsoudao.com/images/kickfront_smag.jpg
After doing a bit more research I’ve found out that the bit cha ki is strongly identified with schools who associate themselves with moo duk kwan tang soo doo and soo bahk do, or strangly enough, people who refer to their style as tang sou dao (first time i’ve ever seen it spelled that way). My only real guess as to its exlusion in my dojang (I can’t speak for the entire style of Tang Soo Do) would be either difficulty/flexibility it takes to learn/preform the kick or a lack of its presence in any hyung.>
Quote: or strangly enough, people who refer to their style as tang sou dao (first time i’ve ever seen it spelled that way)
I’ve seen this spelling a few times. It’s generally used by exponents who want to play up the Chinese influences in tang soo do (if indeed there were actually any), hence the Chinesified spelling.>
Interesting, I can vouch for some strong chinese influences in tang soo do when taught by certain individuals. There are some now forgotten forms (luckily I’ve learned a few of them from outside my dojang) in “mainstream” tang soo do such as Du Moon, and the Chil Sung Hyungs which show off the chinese (and japanese at times) influence in tang soo do. However for the most part, it is indeed difficult to see some of the chinese influences in tang soo do as a result of the way which it is taught.
That little bit of info you’ve given me makes me think that the bit cha gi was a kick that Hwang Kee was influenced by on account of the chinese. So, I might guess that the bit cha gi was phased out to make tang soo do more of a korean art? It is a somewhat far-fetched idea I must admit, but I think there may be some relevence to it.
On a side note, when I say mainstrean I refer to the World Tang Soo Do Association as it seems to me to be one of the more organized tang soo do organizations around. If there are any other big organizations that anyone is a part of I’d like to hear about them.>
This web site has some information on the bit chagi:-
Post: BLACK PANTA:
It looks like a kick I’ve learned in KF, if it is, it’s a very telegraphed kick. I know the uses for it, however I see no REAL use or need for it.>
Its tough to develop any real power in this kick from my experience. Good for semi contact our point fighting tournaments to score, but its actual self-defense usefulness is extremely limited.>
Post: BLACK PANTA:
I guess the kick “can” be used to maybe disarm a knife or some sort. Or perform the best bitch slap using your feet.>
Looks like the gua tek I learned in JKD. If the mechanics are basically the same, I’d agree with 8limbs and Panta, it’s difficult to get any power and is only really useful as a disarm. Even then, you’d have to be really good at it to make it work.>
lol, I dunno about all that. In order to kick a knife out of someones hand a few things have to happen:
1. It would have to be ALL you ever practice…day and night.
2. He’d have to not know what he’s doing.
3. He’d have to not really want to use the knife.
But it could happen, anything is possible.>
The 2. Dan peoples I train whith has snapped the focus bord whith the twimmyo bit shagi (flying/jumping) at their exams>
Post: raging dragon:
Isn’t bit cha gi just a simple half turn kick? If so I am clearly missing something because this is the most used of all kicks in competition. I probably am missing something>
Firstly, i have to apologise for not reading the whole thread through
before i answered, but, from the description it sounds like one i did in my kickboxing syllabus (our original teacher was a KF man, and actually formulated it, so, it may be that he got it from there…no sure though). I use it fairly widely when sparring…it was a nice little snap just to stick in a kick combo.lol. Not much good for power, but, for light contact, did the trick nicely on occassions. As for why it’s not widely use in your school….i don’t know, maybe the teacher doesn’t think it very useful. In all honestly, it isn’t for full contact, i don’t believe, and, from what i gathered, though light contact is practiced in at least Taekwondo at any rate, i thought the majority of the training centred more around the full, with more of a rigid form. I could be blatantly wrong, of course….>