Makin’ Love and Internal Training

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Makin’ Love and Internal Training
Original Poster: wuming
Forum: Kung Fu Styles, Chinese Martial Arts
Posted On: 15-06-2004, 02:49

Orginal Post: wuming: I once read somewhere that having sex will hinder your internal training because of the great expenditure of energy. I wonder if this is fact or just some type of reasoning for social control of sex. Have any of you guys heard anything about this?

Post: Wilhelm von Wänkensteïn:

In TCM, the kidneys (the TCM functions of which closely correspond to that of the adrenal medulla and other parts of the endocrine system, plus the blood pressure control mechanisms of the kidneys) are the storage centres of jing, or essence, both pre-birth and post-birth. They also govern the functions of the bones, muscles and reproduction. In the case of males, the sex act results in the emission of semen, which is the physical vessel of pre-birth essence. This drain weakens the kidneys, which decreases their ability to store essence and refine it into qi, or vital energy. They also govern the function of the legs and lower back, which accounts for the weakness in these areas that results from excessive sex. For women, the sex act itself is not draining in any such fundamental way – the drain comes during pregnancy, when her own vital essence goes to nourishing the developing foetus.

The interesting thing about semen is that it is nutritionally very dense and in fact contains, among other things, a high concentration of fructose which provides energy for the sperm. This may well explain the drain over a prolonged period of time, as your body is essentially shedding essential nutrients with each ejaculation, though I am somewhat at a loss to explain the immediate post-coital energy drain, save for saying that sex itself is a rather exhausting physical activity :mrgreen:

Internal martial arts focus on cultivating the Three Treasures, ie. Essence, Vital Energy (Qi) and Spirit/Mental Energy (Shen). Since the latter two are both derived from Essence (Qi directly so, Shen being derived from Qi), losing one’s vital Essence can be devastating to internal martial arts practice. My teacher did comment to me, however, that a large part of the dread of sexual activity was more social than medical per se, since sex can be addictive and steal time away from more worthwhile activities, like training :mrgreen: He also commented that Essence loss, while devastating, is by no means irreversible and can be recovered with supplementation, rest and other therapies. Still, the main issue with sex is probably the fact that it is an unnecessary form of exertion that leaves you spent and in no condition to train. I have heard that the taboos on sex vary from internal art to internal art – Taijiquan seems to make little or no mention of it (other than perhaps a cursory ‘don’t screw around too much or it will make you tired and unable to concentrate’ in some manuals), ditto with Xingyiquan (to my knowledge- I may well be wrong), whereas Baguazhang, being the highly academic martial style that it is, seems to have reams written on the subject. Apparently, when training Lower Basin (Xia Pan) Baguazhang, one has to abstain entirely from sex when developing the fundamentals (something that takes a minimum of three years) because of the exhausting nature of the training and the stress it puts on the lower body.>

Post: setsu nin to:

In my opinion it all depende on person.

With sex you lose your energy, but if you are under the stress it will help you. Thats why it all depende on person.

Some persons will lose too much of energy and wont get read of stress so sex wont help them.
Other people will lose some energy and they will loose/rest from stress and fight/practice much better, so sex will help them.>

Post: bamboo:

Wuming,

There are also taoist sexual practices of retaining the sperm and suppressing the ejaculation in order to retain the “essence”as well as gain chi through intercourse.

On the opposite spectrum, taost magic also talks about women being able to gain more internal energy through sexual practices. Cultivation of female sexual energy is an interesting yet complicated read but well worth it if the esoteric sides of the arts interest you.

Hammerhead- Interesting post thanks. :)

bamboo>

Post: Wilhelm von Wänkensteïn:

bamboo – thanks for mentioning the taoist sexual control stuff. It was on my mind when I posted, but I clear forgot to include it :D Glad you enjoyed my post! Is anyone else here into sexual esoterica, I wonder, or are we the only extant perverts disguising our fixations with academia? :twisted:>

Post: bamboo:

Tantra is something that has always interested me but I will admit that I stay away from it as it (IMHO) leads to attachment. I written out the Kamma sutta (sutra) here, most people tend to only associate it with tantric sex, yet it does also have a purpose as a guide to pleasure in buddha dharma, especially used in the thai tradition. I used the Thai tradition version of the tripitaka and so the spelling is sutta instead of sutra. This version is not associated with the more commonly known tantric text and illustrations to “absolute pleasure” as is the goal of this tantric practice. I also think that this one is closer to the intention of people in training of body and mind.

Kamma Sutta:

If one, longing for sensual pleasure,
achieves it, yes,
he’s enraptured at heart.
The mortal gets what he wants.
But if for that person
— longing, desiring —
the pleasures diminish,
he’s shattered,
as if shot with an arrow.
Whoever avoids sensual desires
— as he would, with his foot,
the head of a snake —
goes beyond, mindful,
this attachment in the world.

A man who is greedy
for fields, land, gold,
cattle, horses,
servants, employees,
women, relatives,
many sensual pleasures,
is overpowered with weakness
and trampled by trouble,
for pain invades him
as water, a cracked boat.

So one, always mindful,
should avoid sensual desires.
Letting them go,
he’d cross over the flood
like one who, having bailed out the boat,
has reached the far shore.

bamboo>

Post: wuming:

Thanks Hammerhead for that thurough explanation.

That really clears up my question.

My Pa Kua teacher never said anything to me about it, and seen anything that my grand master wrote about it (he tends to be more scientific w/ his Pa Kua, and tries to shy away from esoteric and mystical explanations). But, I read some interview w/ a Liang style master that said you shouldn’t do it. So, I was just a little confused on what the whole deal is.>

Post: jerbo8:

i just have one question’ do i get my chi back if i wait long enough or will i never have as much i i would have if i didnt do it ? i know there are things that cultivate you chi but i was told by someone that you only have a certain amount of jing energy and once you lose it its gone. :?:

DISCLAIMER: i read all of your post and this question was probably answered but im a hillbilly and have a hard time understanding your big city talk. :(>

Post: bamboo:

Jerbo-

I’m no expert but the entire theory of chi (nor am I sure that it exists :wink: ), but yin and yang and so forth are based on duelism. You cannot have one without the other, they balance each other out. If you expend you can regain. I have read that certain foods have a certain energy to them, some yin, some yang, by eating said foods, doing different exercises you cultivate the general flow of chi. IF chi is life force, then it is always with you until death, no more no less, just right.

balance

bamboo>

Post: dscott:

Bamboo: I have to say, I’m very impressing with your vast amount of knowledge in not just one area, but many.>

Post: dscott:

Do you happen to know what these certain foods are? I’m always looking to improve my sexual abilities :roll: :(>

Post: Wilhelm von Wänkensteïn:

It takes about three days to a week to recover your vital energy and essence to the point it was at before you had sex, at least 100 days or three months to recover to the point before you had [i any[\i  sex and, for those who are interested, three years of abstinence and training before the Small Heavenly Circle opens up when doing Lower Basin Bagua.

The thing is, if one doesn’t watch one’s lifestyle and diet, constant sex will leave one in incrementally increasing energy deficit – no matter how long you take to recover, you simply won’t have as much as before if you don’t look after yourself. With that in mind, good supplementary herbs include ginseng (use the American variant if taking everyday, because the Korean and Siberian will overheat your system big-time unless you’re very weak to being with), wolfberries, Chinese foxglove and Chinese yam, just off the top of my head.>

Post: bamboo:

Hammerhead:
Do you have any specific references that you can recomend concerning the small heavenly circle and such? I would love to read more about what you are describing.

Dscott: Thank you, you are very kind. One diet used by many people in relation to maintaining the balance between yin and yang is called Macrobiotics. http://www.pccnaturalmarkets.com/health/Diet/Macrobiotic_Diet.htm

This link should help but if your seriously interested I would look up macrobiotics by George Oshawa- A japanese national that revitalised the practice many years ago.

bamboo>

Post: jerbo8:

thanx guys, this makes me feel better, i was all worried about having weak chi or something. :lol:>

Post: Wilhelm von Wänkensteïn:

bamboo: No worries. In brief, the Small Heavenly Circle is the usual route that qi flow takes in the body, originating in the dan tian and flowing up the Governing Vessel along the spine, which goes over the top of the head and joins with the Conception Vessel inside the roof of the mouth. The Conception Vessel then continues down the front of the body (the centreline, no less) and re-enters the dan tian at the Huiyin point, at the perineum. The Small Heavenly Circle is a qigong practice that involves consciously circulating the qi in this manner as a preparation for the Large Heavenly Circle, which teaches one how to direct qi to the hands (or presumably any other bodily region) as desired.>

Post: bamboo:

Hammerhead:

Hmmm, very interesting. We do a “ki cultivation” breathing exercise at the beginning and end of each class (very chi kung like), I have heard it explained in different ways, one was very much how you described it in terms physical areas of manifestation, just with japanese terms.

cheers

bamboo>

Post: Wilhelm von Wänkensteïn:

bamboo: I’m sure it’s pretty much the same thing, seeing as how that’s the normal natural circuit for qi to flow in a human at rest and hence is practically the default state for a qigong practitioner, as it were. Many people do the Small Heavenly Circle for health’s sake and never progress to the Large Heavenly Circle, which generally has more martial goals in mind.>

Post: me the great:

What about after the three years it takes to open the Small Circle? And has you ever seen mention of the evidence that men who ejaculate more often have a significantly lowered chance developing prostrate cancer later in life?>

Post: Wilhelm von Wänkensteïn:

Well, after the three years taken to open the Small Heavenly Circle, ejaculation once or twice a month is fine, and if you know of those nifty tricks that prevent loss of sexual energy, go as many times as you wish :D

As for the link between prostate cancer and ejaculatory frequency, I seem to recall reading something of the sort in the past, but I can’t remember much, if anything at all.>

Post: me the great:

woooo that was wrong…>

Post: Gong||Jau:

If you think that was wrong, you should read some of his other posts :mrgreen:>

Post: Wilhelm von Wänkensteïn:

Eh? What’d I say wrong this time? That post was strictly for informative purposes, folks – when I post to shock, there’s no mistaking it :twisted:>

Post: me the great:

:oops:

No seriously, I had more to say, then I changed it. That’s all. It was kinda inappropriate I realized.>

Post: Wilhelm von Wänkensteïn:

Oh, I think I’ve just gotten it. Hur hur…good one :twisted:

The next time you do meet an attractive girl, ask her if you can open her Small Heavenly Circle and, er, discuss the effects of ejaculatory frequency thereupon :twisted:>

Post: me the great:

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

No no, I wasn’t gonna ask her that. :shock: God, you’ve given me an idea however. :oops: :lol: :lol: :lol:>

Post: Wilhelm von Wänkensteïn:

Hey, just to make it sound more convincing, you can couch it in terms of ‘vital energy’ and ‘the creating power of the life-principle’. You’ll have her begging for it in no time at all, trust me :twisted:

Believe me, I’m a modern Chinese – nobody knows selling Mystery(TM) and Exoticism(R) to bored westerners like I do :mrgreen:>

Post: me the great:

:roll: No need to take advantage of her.>

Post: Wilhelm von Wänkensteïn:

Don’t think of it as taking advantage, old boy – simply a very convincing sales pitch :mrgreen:

’twas merely a suggestion, of course …just that still, small voice whispering over your left shoulder :twisted:>

Post: me the great:

Well, oh well. I was gonna ask if you had ever heard of the hymen being a conduit for life energy, therefore, if it was important to her.>

Post: Wilhelm von Wänkensteïn:

Hymen being a conduit for life energy? Not that I’ve ever heard – just a flap of membrane in the way of heap big fun. Why? :mrgreen:>

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