Fang SD split- cuz its just too nice

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Fang SD split- cuz its just too nice
Original Poster: sunnzi
Forum: McDojo Dicussion
Posted On: 12-05-2006, 07:40

Orginal Post: sunnzi: [quote=BLACK PANTA [quote=sunnzi http://www.learnkung-fu.com/

Fang Shen Do.

If you joined this school all I can say is sorry. These are some reasons I left?
-Cult like atmosphere
-School Head self appointed Sijo ? unable to verify standings and he gets pissed off when you inquire.
-Not allowed to question (anything!!)
-Must show total obedience
-Changes curriculum constantly, along with fees and ranking ect.
-Intimidation tactics to upgrade membership and attend seminars
-Forget about getting your black belt unless you?re a ?premium? member, go to all the seminars and open a franchise. Which apparently you can do anytime. I knew a green (sash) belt that opened his own school and was head instructor????
-The list goes on and on. Bulshido has good articles from former students?
-Oh and if some of there students or Sufu?s knew that I wrote this and saw me at a bar or an ally they?d try to put me in the hospital or worst!! No kidding around. There kind of mental. 8O :!:[/quote 

Sounds a lot like Temple Kung Fu. If they are (or like) Temple Kung Fu, I wouldn’t worry too much about the last point you made. Their most effective techniques start like this “okay, now hit me this way…..no, no not like that…..THIS way.”[/quote 

Hey Black Panta,

Yah I’m really not concerned about that last point since I don’t frequent bars or dark allies. Though some of the “Kool Aid” drinkers of the clubs (they now have 11 or 12 dojo’s) roam around in packs (5 to 7) looking for fights. These guys will never go one on one; they all attack if given the chance. One sifu use to always begin to show us a new technique by saying “I know this technique works or is effective because I’ve used it in a bar fight” sad thing is I don’t think he was always full of it. Oh well at least I know some of what I learnt will take down a stammering drunk guy. LOL. Well I?ll quit my blathering now. More or less just pointing out the mentality of allot of their students and instucters.

Post: bamboo:

Thanks sunnzi.

BAsed on the tapes of FSD i saw, it would take more than a pack of “heart attack faking, prancing DOUBLE CEUNG CHOI” machines to cause too much damage. :lol:>

Post: zefff:

Its so sad that a pursuit which is meant to reduce fear ends up perpetuating more. Beware of these people because they are actually bordering insanity…The school and self-image they have built is their entire world and they will do anything not to lose it. They are not rational!!!

Sunnzi, I have been in a similar situation and I noticed that when I bumped into them again later, they tried to tap into the fear to intimidate and control me. I never developed the fear (much) thanks to my prior experiences but I saw others who left were not able to handle confrontation with the old Sifu.

If I were you I would forget them entirely and focus on your own future…but if you see them, expect the worst. Especially if they think they have the measure of your skill and also persona…you know, like if you are a nice guy.

You dont know who lurks on here and Bushido so watch your step.>

Post: nbotary:

I’m going to e-mail this rip-off artist and see if he responds… !!! :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:

Quote:
To whom it may concern:

My wife and I have family in the Toronto area and I have been looking for a school to work out at while we are visiting them. I am writing in regards to get some additional information not posted on your web-site. The first thing I noticed that your site says you’re teaching Kung Fu, but you have the word “Do” in the name. This seems contridictory to Chinese Kung Fu as I’ve always associated the word “Do” with Japanese arts such as Aikido and Iaido. You don’t say what style of Kung Fu you teach. Can you tell me what style you are teaching and what your lineage is? I also noticed that you had traditional Japanese Katana swords on your walls and that you were demonstrating escrima fighing. In the eight years that I’ve studied Kung Fu, I’ve never taken a Kung Fu class that taught Japanese or Phillipino weapons. Another thing I noticed is the title of Sijo for the head instructor. Correct me if I’m wrong, but I learned that Sijo was for female senior disciples whereas Sifu was for males. How/why does the head instructor have a female title/rank?

As far as my background and my lineage go, I am a student of Sifu Jeff Bolt who is a senior student of Dr. Yang, Jwing-Ming in Northern Long Fist, Southern White Crane, Chi-na and Yang Style Tai Chi. I have also studied traditional Shaolin under Sihing Michael Aronson learning Eagle Claw and Nine Bird Kung Fu. Sihing Aronson is a senior student of Jeff Bolt, Leung Shum (Ying Jow, Wu Style Tai Chi) and Master under Grandmaster Ricky Anderson who is a senior of Abbot Wang Fui Yen in Hong Kong. Sihing Aronson is also a long time training brother with Master Joel Rodriguez from Atlanta, GA who is a Master under Leung Shum.

I look forward to hearing from you or a member of your staff. Thank you for your time.

With respect and regards,

Nicholas A. Botary

I’ll be sure to let you all know if this fraud replies… !!! :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:>

Post: zefff:

Shit man Im halfway through a megathread on these guys and it seems they really are psychos! Ive heard some mad shit but singling out people for unprovoked ritual abuse, washing the feet of others and sniffing a bucket of dog shit??? :lol:

SMASH THESE FOOLS! :x :x :x>

Post: bamboo:

Just to be “fair” are there any links available with 1st person testimony of these accusations. :)

I’m sure someone cough cough hack zefff has read something with a link somewhere so we can all get the background?

-bamboo :P>

Post: sunnzi:

Hey nbotary,

I dought they will answer that letter. (But I could be wrong) On account that you said your visiting T.O. – in their minds that?s not allot of cash they can make. Assuming they give you the free month, 2 months might be worth $300 to them – unless they restructured rates again. Now they have 13 schools T.O. being the furthest Montreal next and the bulk in the Ottawa area. As for his lineage I was told when I first started when the school was called Wing Chun Do that he was taught by James DeMile who we all know was a student of Bruce Lee and Bruce of Yip Man.

-Zefff, as for the dog s#!t. I hadn?t experienced that type of thing.
The articles that best give you a true sense of what you would be getting into are…
http://www.bullshido.net/modules.php?name=Reviews&file=viewarticle&id=224
and Fang shen don’t (if you can find it)

So I guess this is enough warning – beware and good luck!!!>

Post: BLACK PANTA:

I emailed them about their lineage…well a local school and here’s the responce

Quote:
Hi Aadil,

The system of Kung-fu we teach if Fang Shen Do. Sijo, the Grandmaster and founder has over 30 years experience in the martial arts. He learned various different systems but primarily studied under one of Bruce Lee’s original students.

If you would like to try out a class, please contact us at 905-851-8553 to schedule your first class.

Thanks for the interest,

Patrick Nolan
Head Instructor
phone: 905-851-8553
email: [email toronto@learnkung-fu.com[/email 
website: www.learnkung-fu.com

>

Post: dscott:

You could get more information than that on their website. :roll:>

Post: BLACK PANTA:

I responded to him like this

Quote:
sorry for the confusion I meant to also include your Grandmaster’s lineage aswell, if you would be so kind. Bruce Lee’s students study and practice Jeet Kune Do (Dao) concepts, and Jun Fan Kung Fu. I have never heard of them studying Fang Shen Do. BTW I study under a student of Si Gong Dan Inosanto (Bruce Lees’ best and most famous student). Wich one of Bruce Lee’s students was your Teacher a student of?

he then responded

Quote:
Hi Aadil,

So were you looking for a new location to come and train?

that’s it

Any suggestions as to how I should respond?>

Post: zefff:

I am on post 161 in a Bullshido thread which has 1451 posts!!! Here are some hilarious and not so hilarious tidbits:

“I can’t prove anything on a forum like this. Ask anyone you know who was there, some of them will admit that they washed feet and sniffed dog shit. Scott Hill was there, and most of the other Sifus: Steph (How yer doin??), Serge, Pat, Stephane, Silvain (Puppets – rise!!), Martin. After JP announced that he was gonna do a little experiment about perception, Martin went outside (this was in the BARN on Friday night) and brought in a bucket. It was passed around, I remember STephane P. taking a good whiff and putting on a face as if he had smelled something very delicious. The only person who didn’t hold back reacting was Christine Patenaude, who let out an expression of disgust or so. Anybody who denies this is not saying the truth. There were about 80 people in the barn.”

“I respect each of you for what you have done for me. Having said that, I would not approach you at a school with any of the concerns raised here. I have seen with my own eyes how some instructors at the school have treated questions such as the ones raised in this forum. I have heard Sijo give his “it costs what it costs” speech. I have heard Sijo tell stories of chasing students out of the school, and of him bloodying students. The words came from HIS lips. I have been pressured by instructors. I have been pressured by Linda. I have been humiliated by instructors. I know students who have left the school because there are no competitions. I know students who have left because of the pressure put on them by instructors, by assistant instructors, and by Linda. I know students who stay away from class for extended periods of time because of this uncomfortable feeling.”>

Post: zefff:

This picture just kills it for me! :lol: Check out the serious grills and also the number plate on the Nissan, far right. Its so sad.

http://img185.imageshack.us/img185/3579/mafiosio6ey.jpg>

Post: bamboo:

THanks for delivering ZeFFF!>

Post: zefff:

Whats with the CAPS? Is there a hidden meaning within the post?

Heres the link to the thread upto where I am but you have to wade through the occassional arguments that litter the thread to find the true accounts of horror! Ive already been through a few pages where Sifu’s from the school post to defend their Sijo and old members give their experiences.

http://www.bullshido.net/forums/showthread.php?t=31484&page=24>

Post: bamboo:

Typo, no hidden agenda, not a secret code and i’m wearing pants. :D>

Post: zefff:

check my edit.

Also I have found many other threads exist on other MA forums but this seems the most coordinated and focused thread. There is even an email from the Sijo’s Teacher in Wing Chun Do that says he never got beyond the basics but even while learning always eluded to knowing more and he was never given permission to teach WIng Chun Do. Its in the thread on that same page (24)!>

Post: bamboo:

Nicely done! Thank you!>

Post: zefff:

Well I feel for Sunnzi and hope he is well rid of those guys. They smell all bad to me and I wouldnt be surprised to hear they might go to any lengths to protect their interests, image and finance. Nothing good will come of this. AVOID!

Last link from me is an indepth article written by a former pupil, followed by a host of comments from the FSD clan!

http://www.bullshido.net/modules.php?name=Reviews&file=viewarticle&id=224>

Post: nbotary:

I was diggin’ on the hot blonde in the front row… I wouldn’t mind passing her guard a couple of times – or vice versa!!! :lol: :twisted: :lol: :twisted: :lol: :twisted:

Unfortunately my e-mail wasn’t deliverable. I got a mailerdaemon notice on it this morning. :x>

Post: zefff:

Even if she wasnt married, she would probably rather have you washing the smell of dogshit off her feet with some grape flavour Kool-aid! :lol: :lol: …Im sorry! :lol:>

Post: nbotary:

Not before I had my way with her – a dozen or so times!!! :twisted: :lol: :twisted: :lol: :twisted: :lol:

I found out that my original letter didn’t go through becuase “Sijo McDojo” was over his quota. By the way, thanks for the link Panta!!! I e-mailed that Patrick guy and slightly modified my original letter with the following part after I list my instructors…

“I should hope that you take this inquiry seriously and actually answer my questions in a serious fashion instead of waste my time providing me with the token answer of “My teacher has “x” number of years in the martial arts”; “Please call us to set up a time to visit our facility” or any other non-specific, topic avoidance tactic. I took the time to write you, I would hope you would show me the same respect.”

I also requested a read receipt for it so I know when they got it and if they read it.>

Post: nbotary:

And we have our answer… !!!

Quote:
Hi Nicholas,

Thank you for taking the time to write. To answer your questions, the style of Kung-fu we teach is Fang Shen Do (Way of Survival). What we teach is a modern style of street effective Kung-fu. We teach many different types of weapons in our system from various sources. As for the title of Sijo, it has nothing to do with male or female it is the title given to the founder and grandmaster, it is above the Sifu level.

If you would like to continue to progress in your training I suggest you stop in our give us a call to try out a class. We offer a one month trial program to new students.
You seem to have a lot of experience and would benefit from our program.

Sincerely,

Patrick Nolan
Head Instructor
phone: 905-851-8553
email: [email toronto@learnkung-fu.com[/email 
website: www.learnkung-fu.com

Notice how he still manages to dodge the question on his instructors lineage?!?!?! This is about to get REALLY interesting… :twisted: :lol: :twisted: :lol: :twisted: :lol:>

Post: bamboo:

I seriously doubt you will get anything considering the bullshido thread and recent internet developments concerning FSD.

Best of luck though, I’d love to see that modified bullshit thier selling put under a proper spotlight.>

Post: setsu nin to:

nbotary

I believe that sijo Patrick is 10th dan black belt with many gold silver and red stripes in kung fu. Spirit of old Shaolin monk who practiced karate and TKD come to him in dreams and teach him Fang Shen Do.>

Post: zefff:

[quote=nbotary Not before I had my way with her – a dozen or so times!!! :twisted: :lol: :twisted: :lol: :twisted: :lol:[/quote 

Your sick dude! Why would anyone want to have their way with someone whos feet smell of dogshit? :lol:

Anyway I personally dont want to get involved with anything from them because I sense crazy people and I wouldnt be surprised if it ends in someones murder…seriously. These people are derranged.>

Post: BLACK PANTA:

here was my responce to his last email

Quote:
Not a new place, just looking at an additional. You still haven’t answered my inquiry about your Grandmaster’s lineage, or with student of Bruce Lee he trained under. Also what is Sijo? I have never heard of that rank in any Chinese Martial Art. Is it a name or art? Please b4 I make any decision, I would need to know your Grandmaster’s lineage. Too many times have i been burnt, by fake schools, arts and teachers. One tell tale sign of a bad Kwoon is one that is not willing to disclose their lineage and always throws a sales pitch.

and here was his responce

Quote:
Hi Aadil,

If you would like to discuss any details further please feel free to stop by and I’ll answer any questions you have. I prefer to talk to people face to face instead of email. If you’re worried about bad schools or instructors, the best way to find out is to see for yourself. We have an excellent system and have been teaching martial arts for a long time. Every instructor in our system has gone through extensive training.

If you need any help locating the school, you can check out the website www.learnkung-fu.com or call 905-851-8553.

Thank you,

Patrick Nolan
Head Instructor
phone: 905-851-8553
email: [email toronto@learnkung-fu.com[/email 
website: www.learnkung-fu.com

>

Post: Gazelle:

Is he hoping that he’ll dodge the question anymore when you are there in person? That could turn out to be an interesting meeting, if it were to occur.

‘Not before I had my way with her – a dozen or so times!!!’

NB, are you sure you are married? I am seriously starting to wonder! :lol:>

Post: zefff:

An FSD vid: although to begginers probably an amazing show of technique with control and speed, its infact a display of a common Wing Chunners error where the exponent becomes preoccupied with what happens after control has been gained and glosses over the less aesthetic point in time and space where both sides are striving for a dominant position…which is actually the most important point. Once you can enter well it doesnt matter so much what you do after and this applies to all arts AFAIK.

Im not dissing FSD but I posted this because it is a common fault I see in a lot of WC practioners regardless of what technique they use. Just look at the amount of disregard the guy on the right has for his initial ‘block’ (tan sau). Remember this parry is the one thats meant to stop you from getting your face smashed in so thats why I think it should be the most important. There is a whole lot more that goes against WC principles in this display but its probably up to the individual to see for himself and I dont like to sound like a nit-picker.

http://video.tinypic.com/player.php?v=sg74mp>

Post: bamboo:

http://www.zippyvideos.com/6439193234999106/hesitating_close/ “hesitating close- hiding the punch”

http://www.zippyvideos.com/6571414804999096/heart_attack_close/ “heart attack- you know, just in case the man tha tis pummelling you worries about your health.”

http://www.zippyvideos.com/4067288894999156/step_and_spinning/
hee hee- please sir, here is my back, (no problem, i have a seaky spinny kick”

http://www.zippyvideos.com/4447402084999066/double_barrel_close/ prance and DOUBLE CHUNG CHOI!!!!!! hee hee. I love the protective gear but never ONCE making contact.

http://www.zippyvideos.com/3556767234519866/grappling-intro/
No sir, this does not represent canadian grappling, it represents fantasy and effective “grappling” against your “system” only.

Thats it, i’m starting my own system. Are people really this gullible and do they do anything besides double chung choi?>

Post: bamboo:

Sunnzi: Could you tell us abit our the dreaded and deadly FSD grappling system?

cheers,

bamboo>

Post: zefff:

have you seen what they charge??? SOme dumb arse rich people about with money to fritter!!!

This line from a current student killed it for me

“These men carry themselves in a way that I wanted others to see me. They have self confidence and it shows. I like that.”

Just how fucktup is that? :cry:>

Post: dscott:

[quote=bamboo I love the protective gear but never ONCE making contact. [/quote 

Maybe it’s because he doesn’t want to hurt his hands :roll:>

Post: zefff:

OMG I just saw that Heartattack techn ique!!!! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: WTF??? ROFLMAO spewing my guts up and giving me jaw ache!!!!! its worse than the Bas Rutten self defence vid! :lol:

“You want a fight? Lets go! …urgh…aargh….help….my….heart…Im…..dying…..AHAAA! TAKE THAT BITCH!!!!”

BWAHAHAHAHAAaaaaaaaa!!!!! When I mentioned murder earlier I wasnt joking, these fools are gonna get someone killed! :lol:>

Post: BLACK PANTA:

nothing like a good ol’ wich hunt.>

Post: dscott:

[quote=zefff have you seen what they charge??? SOme dumb arse rich people about with money to fritter!!![/quote 

I didn’t see…..how much??? You have to charge a ton to be able to afford a Maxima with “SIJO” plates. :lol: :lol:>

Post: zefff:

[quote=BLACK PANTA nothing like a good ol’ wich hunt.[/quote 

Sorry, I dont usually get involved in this type of thing BUT… its not the martial art itself or the way its taught that offends but the whole intimidation and cult-like behaviour. Doesnt matter what the art is and how great it is, they are taking advantage of the weak-willed and vulnerable which is not right.

One thing that did make me laugh though was in the Bullshido megathread, at one point some kid called Jaric calls out the Sijo saying “if you want to pick a fight, its picked” …the Sijo basically says “cool, come down then so I can kick your arse” and the Jaric character replies something like “Im not stupid enough to go walk into some dojo and challenge the instructor!” :lol:

Theres another class bit in there too that got me thinking – where a Bullshidoka mentions martial hobbyists with scorn from his perch of effective practice…what like he is any different? :lol: :lol: Its weird that some of those kids actually believe that taking an ‘alive’ art suddenly makes them a warrior incarnate. :lol:

I actually believe I am a martial hobbyist because I practice it as a hobby TBH. Its not my profession and I am not at war everyday so I do not live the life – I practice! What do you guys think about this? I know its off topic but if it goes anywhere Im sure a mod will attend to it ;) …and all these flames have to cause change and growth somewhere eh? :)>

Post: bamboo:

I was really entrenched in my arts to the point of detriment to my personal life. Now its a hobby, I get about three days a week in plus general workout.

Frankly, i do think what they teach at FSD will get people hurt if they attempt it in real life but as far as telling people how to practice…well I believe in drilling and sparring at this point in my training, but frankly, if people like what they do and its not dangerous to them (ie- organization telling them that training with group X will make them invincible when its clearly garbage) then i don’t see the point of badgering them to fit my mindset.

Some people do MAs for fighting, some to get out of the house a few days a week, its no skin off my back.

In the end, this and all other MA forums are just for fun and a good medium to connect with like minded people.

-bamboo>

Post: BLACK PANTA:

BULLSHIDOKA I love that…lol.

Hey man, you’ve had to have been badly burnt by a McDojo to know where the disgust of these organizations comes from>

Post: bamboo:

Or watch legitimate schools disintegrate in the name of ego and $$$.>

Post: zefff:

I guess your right Panta, I just dont see any difference between most students if you set aside training methods.

Yes there are ‘live in’ students and things like that which is more like actually walking the path but is there really a difference between a guy who does Muay Thai 3 times a week and another guy who does Feng shen do 3 times a week?

I know there is an obvious answer to that question but I dont think most students start at FSD to become fighting machines. They probably want self-development, confidence, deadly techniques to use aginst bullies etc, does FSD deliver? I dont know, but it appears to me that they have a half-hashed curriculum that they get by on when combined with a bit of attribute dev.

What cracks me up though is the Sijo started out in Boxing, Karate and then the art of Wing Chun Do so when did he stop learning? Bruce Lee, the root of this Wing Chun Do did not know all of Wing Chun itself. Sijo then only learnt a meager portion of that and now wants to teach it! You would think coming from that lineage of scientific research and eclecticism, he would never cease learning himself but it seems they have a complete system ready to go! Where is the Shuai Jiao, Chin na and where is the boxing? Also with Bruce Lee being the root of his lineage you would think he would be in contradiction of his philosophy when calling himself founder of the art. What has he found?>

Post: sunnzi:

[quote=bamboo Sunnzi: Could you tell us abit our the dreaded and deadly FSD grappling system?

cheers,

bamboo[/quote 

Grappling??? Sorry I was verry verry high in rank (without giving away who I am) never grappled. All the schools I went to and visited had no matts just solid floor. When we spared as soon as someone hit the ground we stopped. It must be new to the school – with all the intrest in UFC and stuff. :mrgreen:>

Post: Bloodybirds:

NB will second me on this as well as Wushu…would love for my Shaolin master to pay a visit to that school in Toronto. It would be fun to see my Shaolin master enter that school and this “Sijo” talk to him this way. By the way, I would be curious to see what James DeMille or Dan Inasanto would say about this person…even Jerry Poteet. I sure do not see any Jeet kun do students coming to their defense.>

Post: bamboo:

Sijo is in Ottawa.>

Post: Bloodybirds:

Oh, Ottawa did not move? To my Canadian brothers, sorry!!!! Usually better at geography….boy am I ready to fly back home this weekend. It must be really cool to creat your own style and give yourself a title….I need to look into that my friends….I am sure my three teachers wouldn’t mind…..Way of the Intellectual fist…..yes, that is the ticket to fame and fortune.>

Post: sunnzi:

Correct…Bamboo. Sijo is in Ottawa and goes frequenty to the Montreal location. Mr. Nolan I assume owns and runs the school in T.O. 6 hr drive from Ottawa. Not sure what Mr. Nolans qualifications are as I don’t know him personally. As mentioned before I knew a green sash that opened a franchise and was head instructor.>

Post: bamboo:

So all you need to open a franchise is $$$ then? Oh so sad really!>

Post: sunnzi:

I just found this and had to post…
[url http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VRwnmTmDG9k&search=Fang%20Shen%20Do[/url >

Post: bamboo:

I almost ruined my keyboard here at work when the grappling part came on! That was freaking priceless!

@ fingered pushups, impressive.

Is the glass walking for when they fight in the streets with lava and broken glass everywhere?

-bamboo>

Post: BLACK PANTA:

oh man I loved the grappling aswell. You see how the chick motioned as though breaking the knee of the dude she just put down. That was priceless.>

Post: dscott:

That was craptastic!!!>

Post: zefff:

what! I didnt see any grappling…I did get bored half way through though.

What I saw validates my earlier assumption of the practioners being preoccupied with the jazzy shit and not the acheiving of a dominant position.

The disparity between the knife and stickwork was a joke regardless of how well or not so well it was performed. Everyone who has a decent grounding in weapons knows there is a core principle that should follow in long and short weapons and also emptyhand. I understand that the vid was probably clips from a crappy promo vid for newbs but Ive seen slick weapons work and also not so slick…that was not so slick. Looked like power rangers shit TBH. Seems they are stuck in the 70’s TBH. IMHO they are fantacists. But they are still dangerous.

I must say though that I still believe that even if they were teaching the most effective arts ever in the most effective way, that still doesnt account for the poison that exists within their mentality. Its amazing, the power of ego. I guess some peoples nature is to dominate and others is to capitulate. Even yesterday I found some woman who works in my building parked right up next to me in her BMW and bashed my little Fiats door leaving a 1 inch scratch. I couldnt go find her to ask what happened because I couldnt figure out a polite way to confront her so I left it be. This woman is rich and could easily afford the repairs but she couldnt be bothered to tell me. Who is the bigger coward?>

Post: Gazelle:

[quote=zefff  Who is the bigger coward?[/quote 

Maybe she just doesn’t care. You should have comfronted her. I don’t think there is anyway you could do it without feeling awkward, all you could have done was to keep it quiet and calm, on your side, and be reasonable, and if she started blowing, and calming her down was not working, or getting anything out of her was proving impossible then retreat- and by that i don’t mean to go sprinting down the corridor. And maybe try again later.>

Post: Wong_Kei_Ying:

[quote=sunnzi I just found this and had to post…
[url http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VRwnmTmDG9k&search=Fang%20Shen%20Do[/url [/quote 

Is this a joke?>

Post: Gazelle:

Their feet must have had a few cuts after that.>

Post: Stazzy:

The really, really, really, really, ridiculously sad thing about all this–is that they’re not bad martial artists. Even though the matrix fang shen do video might not have been the coolest way to introduce your martial art to the world, the techniques they were using would more likely than not work in a street fight if executed with proper timing. I’m not versed well enough in Chinese martial arts (and neither are they) to give you a definite answer, but I’m pretty sure they were using a lot of Wing Chung in their “Trapping” section and probably some others as well that I can’t seem to recall. Also some of the kicks they were doing, such as the inner crescent and jump-snap kick, were executed pretty well. Aside from the bizarre rituals, obscure inner circles, inflated prices, warped lineage, unyielding military rule, and one seriously f***ed up mob picture with a license plate that could scar even a Porsche, their martial arts style, whether it is or isn’t authentic, isn’t nearly as bad as some of those practiced in TKD McDojos. I think they should stop lying to their customers about their past and earn some credibility by proving their effectiveness in the ring or on the mats.>

Post: Gazelle:

Nicely put.>

Post: samurai6string:

Stazzy> I think I read on one of those links that the guy who came up with the whole thing had studied WC for a brief period of time. It’s still a huge scam, but it’s nice to know that they can do some WC basics while sniffing dog turds.>

Post: zefff:

From what I gather the Sijo did a bit of Wing Chun Do and was disowned for having a big head and going beyond his station. So he has learnt a portion of an art from a guy who learnt from another guy who had learnt a portion of his art.>

Post: bamboo:

Quote:
the techniques they were using would more likely than not work in a street fight if executed with proper timing.

I just don’t see it happening. Every technique i saw relied on either a semi retarded attacker or a one step attack where the agrressor leaves himself open for a few LONG seconds while he is danced around.

I get to practice with an EX-FSD man quite frequently, a man with 10 years exprience with them, he will be the first to tell you it simply does not work. I know these are demonstrations only but if the DEMO is terrible, how in any way can the REAL time application somehow be better?

I’m sorry, I’m calling crap on the grappling as well as the “closing the gap” techniques, this coming from personal experience as well as damning them on the video evidence.

-bamboo>

Post: WushuPadawan001:

A technique shown in a demonstration is like the cover of a book; it gives the reader an idea of what it?s about. Hence there?s value in every demonstrated movement on that demo, even the ?grappling? and glass walking. Of course from what I understand about their philosophy, they?re totally whack on that end.

My $0.02>

Post: bamboo:

Quote:
Hence there?s value in every demonstrated movement on that demo, even the ?grappling? and glass walking

If the movement is incorrect and results in an ineffective outcome, how is this helpful?>

Post: zefff:

If I made a promo for my new shit-filled-sandwiches, would you like to eat?…only 10 bucks!

‘Value’ is something people attach to desirable things. But interestingly enough we could say that FSD would have no value whatsoever if there were no demand for it…do you see what I am getting at?

IMHO the demands of the potential student are petty desires and FSD simply panders to those demands.

Also, how can it be a decent art when the mind drives the body. Even with the best dynamics, condition and mechanics a technique is still driven by the mind. FSD promotes warped thought which equates to warped technique, if you think logically.>

Post: bamboo:

/clap :)>

Post: Stazzy:

I’m just trying to give a fair, unbiased evaluation of their art. In the video, I didn’t see any evidence of shit-sniffing, and the only “evidence” we have of them doing anything of that sort came from an IP address on some forum I hadn’t even heard of posting about his experiences without actually presenting a single name or location.

Also bamboo, you said that you couldn’t see any of the techniques shown in that video working. I just can’t agree with you there. The best way to explain that would be, “I don’t have to be good. I just have to be better than you are.” Words of widsom from one of my KF instructors at Jeff Bolt’s. Any of those techniques could work, and the reason they were left exposed for “a few LONG seconds” was because they’re making a video where the target audience is most likely going to be potential students. Those students probably won’t be masters, and they’ll have to see the techniques being shown more slowly than they would be used in real life. BTW Bruce Lee had to slow his techniques down just to get them on tape, but I’m not comparing these guys to Bruce Lee.>

Post: BLACK PANTA:

bruce slowd down his technique for movies, back then the frame rate couldn’t pick up his speed. With modern technology, I’m sure we can do it now.

Bashing someone over the head with a 2 x 4 will be effective in the street, but you dont see me video taping it and trying to pass it off as a legitamate technique.

By the way the CRAPPLING, and Sword form sucked. The escrima was weak, just stick flinging, and the WC was laughable.>

Post: bamboo:

Stazzy- I think you missed the part where I wrote that I have first hand experience with a few guys from this group. That video was not performed in a slowed down fashion, you are expected to leave your arm out, its like most aikido training (of which i have 7 years+) you are expected to play a roll, go hard as hell, but its still a role. When they spar, they don’t use ANY of those techniques because they know as well that they don’t work.
Ask sunnzi how well his FSD training did when he left the system and joined a decent place.

Meh- If people want to continue to think that what they demonstrated had value so be it.

-bamboo>

Post: zefff:

Bruce Lee cant fight for shit!…He’s dead! :lol: :roll:

Also the shit-sniffing was corroborated in the Bullshido thread and names, times and location were given. I understand where they were trying to go with that but they could have worked conditioning to unpleasant things with verbal aggression, punches or slaps to the face, breakfalls or something else directly applicable.>

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