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Original Poster: kclemens
Forum: McDojo Dicussion
Posted On: 20-01-2007, 09:56

Orginal Post: kclemens:

Quote:
These are some of the websites operated by the “ex-Spetsnaz”, “Stalin’s falcons”, “former Spetsnaz instructors”, etc.

They have been ripping people off by selling bullshit stories.
They (“Spetsnaz instructors”) are posers, and liars. None of them has ever served with any of our units.
I’ve seen one of the “instructors” getting his jaw broken by a buddy of mine in Moscow.

I wouldn’t want you to spend your hard earned money on those scumbags.
They are not worth even a SINGLE dollar off your pocket!
The sheer amount of bullshit coming from them simply amazes me!!

http://www.russianmartialart.org/

http://www.ermaa.com/

http://www.spetsnaz-gru.com/

http://www.russianmartialart.com/

http://www.systemamartialart.com/

I’m sure there are more. These are just the ones I easily found.

Taken from http://www.armyranger.com/bb/viewtopic.php?t=10937

Post: BLACK PANTA:

http://www.russianmartialart.org/

correct me if I’m wrong, but that fat dude in the pic, isn’t that DCohen’s instructor?>

Post: dscott:

Yes, you’re right. They haven’t been here for a while. He posted a couple times. Arther Sennot….I think.>

Post: BLACK PANTA:

[quote=dscott Yes, you’re right. They haven’t been here for a while. He posted a couple times. Arther Sennot….I think.[/quote 

So he’s a phoney?>

Post: dscott:

I’m not say he is. I don’t know if he is or not. You just asked if that was Dcohen’s instructor and I confirmed it was.

Where is Kclemens quoting that from anyway?>

Post: BLACK PANTA:

[quote=dscott I’m not say he is. I don’t know if he is or not. You just asked if that was Dcohen’s instructor and I confirmed it was.

Where is Kclemens quoting that from anyway?[/quote 

the site is at the bottom of his post.>

Post: dscott:

I’m confused…..are they saying that Systema is a fake or just these instructors? The way I read it is that these schools claim things that they are not. They may know what they’re doing but they’re still lying.

Is that how you read it?>

Post: BLACK PANTA:

I dont think they are saying that Systema is a fake art, but these schools are lying and posing. Maybe what they teach is not Systema?>

Post: dscott:

Interesting. I was actually invited down there by Dcohen once. It’s about an hour away from me if I remember correctly.>

Post: BLACK PANTA:

[quote=dscott Interesting. I was actually invited down there by Dcohen once. It’s about an hour away from me if I remember correctly.[/quote 

maybe you should check it out and bring this forums’ claims to the instructor. See what he has to say about it.>

Post: bamboo:

I believe mr. Sennot left the organized circle of systema quite some time ago and went in his own direction.

I may be mistaken but I seem to remember some discusion regarding whether or not they would continue to call what they trained “systema”.

Lots of politics in the martial arts world, I’m led to believe that this is all part of this.

-bamboo>

Post: dscott:

You could probably do a search for Mr. Sennot’s posts. I believe his screen name was Arthur_Sennot. Or something like that. I remember there being another one of Dcohens classmates on the forums as well.>

Post: kclemens:

Quote:
Where is Kclemens quoting that from anyway?

Read a bit harder bro

Quote:
Taken from http://www.armyranger.com/bb/viewtopic.php?t=10937

And its their words, not mine. I just posted it for people here.>

Post: roundeyesamurai:

Hi everyone, this is my first post on this forum. Some folks may recognize my username from a few other forums.

With regards to this topic, I think a little bit of “re-check” is in order.

Firstly, let me say that I am not attempting to prove or disprove the validity of any of these claims. Rather, I am attempting to put these claims in their proper perspective.

You see, we all have a tendency to regard a claim of “McDojoness” as fodder for a discussion of the merits of a martial art or a purveyor of same. This is, of course, a very honest way of approaching the topic- a strictly merit-based analysis.

However, I don’t think this is the way this particular claim should be regarded. In this instance, I think we should examine the validity of the claim itself.

In simple terms, the claim being made is that these individuals are not former members of “Spetsnaz”. The claim is being made on a forum which is composed of a good number of US Army Rangers, who deal with the “poseur factor” (persons falsely claiming military status) on a daily basis, and this claim is almost certainly being issued in that light.

The claimant is, himself, claiming “Spetsnaz” status himself- that is, if I am interpreting the following statement correctly:

“None of them has ever served with any of our units.”

Note that the person making this claim, is making it anonymously.

So, to summarize the above into a single, cohesive statement: An anonymous individual on a discussion forum, who claims (or at least, gives the impression of claiming) to be a member of “Spetsnaz”, is claiming that these instructors are not former members of “Spetsnaz”.

How much merit does this claim have?

Now, let’s play devil’s advocate for a moment: Assuming that this individual is, indeed, a bona fide member of “Spetsnaz”, there still exists a problem with his assertion: The term “Spetsnaz” doesn’t refer to a particular military unit in the Russian armed forces. “Spetsnaz” is, in fact, a word which translates as “special” (or something close to it). Every police force in Russia has a “Spetsnaz” team. Most of the governmental departments (ministries) have their own “Spetsnaz”. Each branch of the Russian armed forces has a “Spetsnaz” unit, and each of these consists of thousands of members at any given time.

In other words, even if the individual’s claim of “Spetsnaz” service is true, how could he possibly know whether these instructors are or are not former members? There are very likely tens of thousands, perhaps even hundreds of thousands, of men who are currently and/or formerly members of a “Spetsnaz” unit.

The easiest way to clear all of this up would be to have evidence of these instructors’ service- documentation, corroboration from the Russian government, etc. Unfortunately, unlike the United States government (which is required by law to disclose information such as this), the Russian government is not likely to be helpful in this regard.

So, what’s to be done about all of this? Well, thankfully this isn’t a new problem. The Romans had an expression for this sort of dilemma:

CAVEAT EMPTOR

(or, more appropriately for the a discussion forum, “caveat lector”).>

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