blocking a muay thai kick?: Old Forum Topic

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blocking a muay thai kick?: Old Forum Topic
Original Poster: setsu nin to
Forum: Muay Thai Boxing – Thai Martial Arts
Posted On: 26-03-2004, 15:33

Orginal Post: setsu nin to: blocking a muay thai kick?

zaius
i was play “sparring” with a muy thai guy today, i’m wondering, how do you guys block a muay thai kick?

my wing chun is reacting and giving a gwan sao with shift. i can redirect it, but i don’t htink it’s any good if he kicks full speed. my forearm will break.

eventually, i just started raising my knee up and turning it, to block it.

so, for all you other martial artists, and wing chun artists, how do you deal with it?
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MA dude
I just read something in Blackbelt about a dude trying to block a thai kick and the kick broke his forearm.
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bamboo
At our dojo (aikido) we tried to work off of a muay thai round kick just a few weeks ago.

The way we did it was to move into the kick by entering just off the centre line striking at the inner thigh with your knee and keeping the forward hand to strike at the face. This leaves your back hand ready for grabbing and your back leg and foot well rooted. If a grab was possible we then usually did a uchi sankyo as uke was already off centre.

Of course if you missed……Splat!

-bamboo
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zaius
stepping in eh?

yeah, that’s probably the best approach, since the muay thai kick is telegraphed. i understand what you’re saying, just jam the kick with your knee against their inner thigh.

anymore suggestions? it’s such a deadly kick.
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gong|fu|disciple
Well first things first…you don’t want to start ‘blocking’ anything much less a Muay Thai roundhouse.

You could also just jam it with your foot as opposed to the knee but both would work assuming you get the timing right. Thats really the tricky part a lot of the time. Although you may have a sound approach to parrying or diverting an attack, the problem usually lies in executing that approach and this always takes good timing among other things.

Theres also some variables to consider, like what sort of kicks were giving you the most trouble? Depending on whats being thrown, you could simply execute an arrow punch with a barring arm (Lan sao) and just cut them to the quick. Good footwork and weight transference are a must here. Works best with roundhouses and if you can’t step and punch faster than he can throw a kick, well…you’re gonna get fucked. You’ll definately need to close the gap fast while issuing strikes so you can get where you belong, right in the guys face. If you can close the distance and start bridging appropriately, you won’t have to block anything because you’ll be able to cut him off before he gets the chance to throw anything.
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scaramouche
What makes a RH much *less* dangerous than somebody swinging a baseball bat at you is the kick can’t extend past the line of the knee.

The danger zone of the kick ends at the line down the thigh and out the knee. I.e., he can’t extend his instep farther than the line of his knee. Stay to the inside of his knee-line and you won’t be hit by that kick. (I’m talking instep RH, not dealing with him arching his foot and kicking with, say, the ball of his foot, which is much slower a hell of a lot more dangerous for him).

Assuming he’s whipping out fast RH’s to your knee and thigh, you can’t be within the range of his kick unless you are to the inside his knee-line–otherwise you are within his power-zone and if his instep and shin are conditioned he will batter anything in that zone. So he will try to kick so his knee is pointed at you in such a way that his kick can penetrate you–i.e., pointed at your body. Your shuffle footwork has to be agile enough to keep that from happening and to watch out for the other leg’s knee line.
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Ninja Kl0wn
Realistic defense to the roundhouse:

The thing you have to keep in mind here is that a good Thai boxer doesn’t just throw that telegraphed roundkick. It is usually accompanied by some sort of hand fake to get your attention off the kick. Alot of guys will train against the guy throwing both of his arms up to the left, then jerking the right arm down behind them as they throw the kick. A good Thai boxer, however, sticks that right hand in front of your eyes almost like faking the cross. It’s like a finger fan from JKD, a sort of P-I-A.

What this means to you is, you won’t have alot of time to react. That’s why most Thai boxer’s just check the kick by blocking with thier upper shin. It’s not because it’s a simple art, it’s because they don’t have time to do much else.

Personally, I don’t like to get hit period. I like to evade. I don’t usually shin block unless I’m caught in “Oh shiznit” mode and don’t have time to do anything else. I move just enough to let the kick barely slip by me, and explode back in with a straight punch. If the opponent throws a lead leg round kick, then skip the evading back part and simply explode in with a cross. You’re jamming the kick when you do this because you’re getting in too close to be hit with any power.

If you have enough distance and good timing, another option is to stop his kick at the him before it starts. Though it’s taught as a basic defense in muay Thai, the timing has to be so good that you rarely ever see it employed, even by professional level Thai boxers. Stop the kick as soon as he begins to throw it by hitting him with a push kick to the hip. It’s simple enough in theory, and it stops the kick dead. The only time you’ll probably ever pull this off is early in a fight, if the guy is throwing light round kicks to feel you out. When the shiznit hits the fan, this becomes way too difficult to pull off for most people.

One thing that I see alot of people do is try blocking/redirecting/whatever with thier hand and/or forearm. This is a definate NO! You’re taking away the defense from your head. If the guy sees you do this, he’s going to pull his kick up to your head. At most you MIGHT get away with it once. After that, he’s watching for it.
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Iron Knuckles
I’ve always been taught to block a mid-level round kick by raising the lead leg and taking the kick on the shin, keeping your heel toward the ground and toes up and pointed toward the kick. It’s a good idea to keep your hands up and make sure your forearms are in the way should the kick happen to slide up and catch you in the midsection. If they’re kicking low, at the level of your knees I’ve always found it helpful to keep your toes pointed at the kick and bend your knee forward, absorbing the kick on your thigh. It hurts like a mofo but it’s better then getting your knees broken. Obviously, it’s usually better to avoid the kick altogether.
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EvilScott
How to block a MT (or any really) round kick? Here are a few my WC sifu gave me…

A. Complete the circle: sidestep away from the kick and grab it between your arm and ribs. Practice doing this so you don’t absorb too much impact. QUICKLY figure-four the ankle and use an achilles lock, else kick their back foot, or push the foot you have away and blitz the center.

B. Blitz the center: Throw down a garn sao or gum sao as insurance and blitz the center. Straight is faster than round, so you get there first.

C. Con (Kwan?) Sao: Will hurt your opponent like hell – I forget if it is called Kwan Sao or Con Sao but it is a combined Tan Sao and Garn Sao – turn to face the impact and make sure you are rooted and they will be hurt pretty bad if they put any stank on their kick.

D. Lift leg: for low kick, do what you said and angle your shin to hit. Or you can lift your leg but get it back down FAST so you aren’t caught without root

Hope that helps
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peacefulwarrior
If he’s going to put a lot of power in his kick most likely his face and body will show it. One technique that you can try is when he goes for a RH kick spin into him with your elbow to his face.

If your both squaring off with a left lead stance and he starts to kick with his back right leg. Your move would be to step up with your right back leg and turn using your left elbow when you come around to strike his face or chest(solar plexus). By doing this your getting in close which is where you want to be. Sometimes this is known as a spinning back fist but in this case use your elbow because of the close distance. If you are still at a distance when you spin around obviously go with the back fist or knife hand to the throat.
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8LimbsScientist
Why do you need a special way to block a Thai round kick? Why not just use the one the Thais have been using for centuries? Lift you leg up and take the blow on your shin or knee.

Anything else is EXTREMELY iffy. I mean, if simply stepping inside of the blow, or else dodging it altogether, was the answer then wouldn’t that be the answer to every attack? I mean, if I could evade or step into every attack, I wouldn’t even need to study MA.

Anyway, the Thai round kick is extremely fast and powerful. Blocking with your forearm is a big no-no. I can’t believe I just said no-no.

Also, EvilScotts “A” example is extremely risky. Misjudge and you’ve just accepted a kick to the ribs. That really would suck.

Oh, all of this is assuming we’re talking about a low kick…if you mean a torso or head kick, then you use soemthing different, but I don’t know if I can explain it correctly with writing.
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Blade
the most reallistic approach to me seems to go sideways and forward outside of the kick’s angle and inside enough that it cant hit you. i mean if he kicks you with his knee extended that doesnt really hurt you. and the more simple thing is to block it with your shin like the thai’s do, offcourse if you have the skill you can try the first approach because then you advance forward as an offensive move aswell and your not JUST defending. anyway i havent blocked good thai kicks with my shin so i dont know how much damage it could do to you, that may also be something to consider… were not all built of steel.
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MA dude
I would personally jump above the kick and rain down blows Either that or do what Iron Monkey said.
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zaius
so the best approach is to use the shin and defend. are the toes pointed down or up?

if it’s telegraphed, i may be able to step inside the knee and kneeline, jam it, and attack close range.

how do you guys strengthen up your shins without getting splints?

what about high kicks to the midsection or the head?
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The BadBoy
As Monkey has said, use your shin or knee if you have to block. If the kick is telegraphed and you can get out the way do that, or use your foot to jam it like formless said. A lot more effective when you have shoes on. i use all the above.

For kicks to the midsection if it is too hight for you to use your shin knee then you have to use the arm to block. Just keep your arm in tight to your body like a boxer does to defend bodyshots and take the kick on the arm. for the head again it sthe same as blocking a hook, bring your arms up in a kind of answering the telephone position and take the kick on the forearm bicep area.
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jlambvo

quote:

IRONMONKEY: Anything else is EXTREMELY iffy. I mean, if simply stepping inside of the blow, or else dodging it altogether, was the answer then wouldn’t that be the answer to every attack? I mean, if I could evade or step into every attack, I wouldn’t even need to study MA.

lol, that’s just about one of the first things we are taught, so it sounds pretty good to me. Easier said than done like you said, but then again that’s why I need to study the martial art, so I don’t understand the last statement.

I don’t like to get hit either. I really want to train against some RH stuff, because we NEVER attack like that. But I know a circular attack will be strongest at the tip and quickly go down to the inside, so I would probably go in for the straight attack that simultaneoulsy jams his. My initial thought has always been to step outside and enter while he recovers, but that still leaves initiative more up in the air (unless he has to turn around to rebalance).
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dcohen
There’s a million things you can do from that point. Off the top of my head…take a step towards your opponent (inside) with the non-targeted leg, leaving your targeted leg further back to make a plane for the kick to slide off of. When his foot gets to the ground, you can step in that direction with the plane/wedge making leg right before he makes contact with the ground and give him a hard fall and a broken ankle.

Or, you could step off to the inside like you want to stand next to him. Just before you get next to him, turn around to face in the direction he’s facing and drag your arm along (you’ll probably punch him in the throat with this). When his leg gets close to touching down, help it slide a little further forwards for the ankle break.

Some other stuff to play around with…look at how good muay thai kickers kick – there’s a tendency to use the torso to “jack” the leg into the target for a lot of damage. This leaves the hip of the kicking leg completely open to any manipulation – it has no base and is already moving in a forward spiralling motion. Help it along as you step in and you can get a neat throw. Actually looks like a movement from an Aiki Kata I learned when I was doing Aikido. But hey, that’s bullshit, I forgot. Doesn’t work in real life

Try it out with a partner. Preferably a muay thai guy. See all the different ways you can fock him up.

-David
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The BadBoy
True there are a million and one ways to theoretically deal with a Thai round kick, but the advice I give to people I train is to stick with the high percentage ones (the ones I mentioned in my earlier post) until there at a point in they’re training where training time allows them to suffieciently train other defences, or there at that point in there training that they are capable of defending a round kick quite comfortably.

This will mean that they can afford to be a little more innovative in their training and start to experiment. like with all things, get down the basics before you start making things difficult for yourself.
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katanahamon
quote:

Originally posted by zaius
i was play “sparring” with a muy thai guy today, i’m wondering, how do you guys block a muay thai kick?

my wing chun is reacting and giving a gwan sao with shift. i can redirect it, but i don’t htink it’s any good if he kicks full speed. my forearm will break.

eventually, i just started raising my knee up and turning it, to block it.

so, for all you other martial artists, and wing chun artists, how do you deal with it?

If the kick is coming to your thigh (as most Muay Thai kicks do) then you simply raise your lead leg up and sweep it slightly outward to absorb the blow on your shin. This is the fastest and surest way to block this type of kick and is what Thai fighters use to block.

If the kick is coming towards your ribs you have to absorb it by pulling your arm in close to your body and taking it on the outside of your arm. You need to be very careful about follow-up strikes and regain your fighting stance immediately because you’ll be open to head strikes during this time once their foot gets back on the ground. Also be aware that a kick that looks like it is destined for your ribs can quickly turn into a shin kick to the head and a KO.

If the kick is coming towards your head, and you can’t duck under it or back out, you’ll bring your arm up to your head as if you’re answering the telephone. Keep your fist next to your ear and your entire arm tight against your skull. Absorb the kick again on the outside of your forearm. Get ready to counter strike from here.

Many defenses that claim to work against the Thai round kick make some gross assumptions. For instance Thai boxers *always* throw in combinations. Trying to catch the kick or swing inside of it sound great in theory if the person attacking is stupid enough to just throw one kick. If they follow standard procedure and follow-up the kick with fists and elbows you’ll just walk right into it or have your hands tied up worring about their kick which is the least of your worries. As with most things in fighting, the simple stuff works best.
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dcohen
quote:

Originally posted by katanahamon
If the kick is coming to your thigh (as most Muay Thai kicks do) then you simply raise your lead leg up and sweep it slightly outward to absorb the blow on your shin. This is the fastest and surest way to block this type of kick and is what Thai fighters use to block.

I beg to differ. That requires fine timing and coordination to “pick off” the incoming kick. If you must perform a hard block, a simpler alternative is to turn to the outside of the incoming kick while simply standing there and squatting a little. The non-targeted leg is now intercepting the kick. It’s faster and you have more weight behind it. Also, it doesn’t matter where on your leg the guy is impacting – you get something good.

If he was aiming low, he now gets your knee drilling into his shin. If he was aiming high, your slightly bent upper legs make a wedge which extends his leg out and up (bad for him – you can punch him in the balls, fold his leg and knee him there, throw him while stepping on his supporting ankle and letting his weight break it as he falls, squatting while you throw him to mess with his expectations of when he’ll hit the ground and really screw him over when he gets there, etc.).

Keep it simple guys…doesn’t have to be such a complicated thing.

-David
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Dcohen
By the way, welcome to the board!

-David
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The BadBoy
dcohen I’m trying to visulise what you siad but I’m not quite getting it. Are you saying turn into the kick, as in your body turns into the direction from which the kick is coming?
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dcohen
Yup, sorry I couldn’t describe it clearly enough. Your description is basically what I was thinking of.

Say he’s throwing his right leg at you (coming from your left) – you turn left, letting your right knee overlap the left one while squatting (not much movement is required). As you do this, you could throw a whipstrike at his face with your left hand and then connect a solid blow from your right fist into his gut (these could be either powered BY the turn, or powering IT). Doesn’t matter if they hit or not, it serves as a distraction for any follow up upper-body work he is planning to do.

As his kick starts to make contact with, say, the bottom of your right knee, it is redirected at the ground by its own inertia. The harder it’s coming, the more forcefully it pushes itself towards the ground. Simply stepping forward with your right leg after this wedge has been created will severely off balance him, if not make him go into a forward split. At this point, you can do a whole bunch of things, like letting his face bounce into your knee on the way down or whatever you need.

Crap, maybe I should make a video of myself and a MT guy explaining it…hard to put into words for me. Hope that clears it up.

-David
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The BadBoy
I get it now, still think it would be far easier just raising your leg to block with the shin. A lot quicker to recover from in my opinion. But, none the less I’ll try it out next time I spar and let you know how I went.
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dcohen
Oh, it’s not supposed to be a block or something that you quickly do and then go back to “the fight.” You do it, the guy trips and falls, then you go from there. I’m guessing you won’t bash him in the way down in the ring, so do whatever you do in the ring…perhaps make a wedge with your targetted leg while still facing him, as you move into his center and hit him in the gut or throat.

Guess it’s more of a street move. But tell me how it goes, I had a lot of fun with it today.

-David
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DeStRuCtIkOn
What does the kick need to work? A full range of motion. How do you eliminate this? You get inside its range and make the force either dissipate before building steam or make the force miss entirely.

What is required for an impact to cause pain or damage? A small point of contact to a rigid structure or sensitive area. How do you eliminate this? Feed to the kick a larger contact area to spread the impact, preferably one that is essentially just meat or won’t be disabled by the kick. The best areas for this that I can think of is across the back of the shoulders or across the pecs.

Since most Muay Thai kickers aim for the leg, it’ll be difficult at best to feed your chest or back to a kick but if you see it coming, you can enter, change level, take the kick with little harm to yourself and with your position do something fun like a fireman’s carry throw.

Of course, BadBoy and others will say this is “iffy” and you should learn your fundamentals first, so don’t practice this until you’re already a shodan and teaching somewhere.
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The BadBoy
Feed the guy the back of your shoulders, He’ll kick you in the back of the head most likely, not a place where you want to take a round kick trust me I’ve felt it.

Taking the kick in the manner that has been precribed by myself before and then changing level and shooting in for the takedown is excellent, works a charm to. Its one of my high percentage takedowns.

the techniques we are calling iffy are If you don’t belive us try them out against a experienced thai boxer and see the results for yourself compared to the tried and tested methods.
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DeStRuCtIkOn
quote:

Originally posted by BadBoy4Life
Feed the guy the back of your shoulders, He’ll kick you in the back of the head most likely, not a place where you want to take a round kick trust me I’ve felt it.

This is one of those issues of timing, and is really something very akin to a, “if he did A I would do B,” comments that usually make us bristle.

Can you change the angle of your kick in mid-attack? Could you change it so dramatically that you could kick the head of the guy who’s currently throwing you over his shoulders?

Your method is fine and dandy, but it’s too many steps. Streamline.

As for experienced kickboxers, maybe you should try to fight some experienced grapplers, or some experienced SWAT operators or some experienced blah blah blah. I’m getting really tired of the whole “it doesn’t work if it doesn’t work on a guy who’s won a title,” mentality. Alex Gong got capped, does that mean that now your kick boxing training will include car jacking? It’s obvious that it works. But then, I’ve always known that the simple street thug was better than a guy who trains in the ring.
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katanahamon
quote:

Originally posted by dcohen
quote:

Originally posted by katanahamon
If the kick is coming to your thigh (as most Muay Thai kicks do) then you simply raise your lead leg up and sweep it slightly outward to absorb the blow on your shin. This is the fastest and surest way to block this type of kick and is what Thai fighters use to block.

I beg to differ. That requires fine timing and coordination to “pick off” the incoming kick. If you must perform a hard block, a simpler alternative is to turn to the outside of the incoming kick while simply standing there and squatting a little. The non-targeted leg is now intercepting the kick. It’s faster and you have more weight behind it. Also, it doesn’t matter where on your leg the guy is impacting – you get something good.

If he was aiming low, he now gets your knee drilling into his shin. If he was aiming high, your slightly bent upper legs make a wedge which extends his leg out and up (bad for him – you can punch him in the balls, fold his leg and knee him there, throw him while stepping on his supporting ankle and letting his weight break it as he falls, squatting while you throw him to mess with his expectations of when he’ll hit the ground and really screw him over when he gets there, etc.).

Keep it simple guys…doesn’t have to be such a complicated thing.

-David

I understand what you’re saying, but the timing works out pretty well and this type of block is used extensively by Thai boxers over anything else I’ve seen for kicks. Twisting your whole body versus raising your leg takes considerably longer when the kicks are flying.
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dcohen
I agree with you. Hell if it works, use it – I suppose the point I should make to clarify is that you’re talking about a block that lets you hurt the other guy and keep fighting the match, and I’m talking about a ‘takedown’ that has a good chance of doing serious damage to the attacker’s hip and ankle.

Sorry for not clarifying that before. I had great success doing the above mentioned takedown, but I’m happy to give the thai block another try. Again, welcome to the board – hope you find what you’re looking for.

-David
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The BadBoy
Des what the fock are you talking about now. You turn your back to me when I throw a kick at you I’ll feint the same kick and sock you in the back of the head. Its how tacticians work.

“I’m getting really tired of the whole “it doesn’t work if it doesn’t work on a guy who’s won a title,”

Why would I want to work at a block that wouldn’t work against someone who knows what he is doing.
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THE
quote:

Originally posted by zaius
stepping in eh?

yeah, that’s probably the best approach, since the muay thai kick is telegraphed. i understand what you’re saying, just jam the kick with your knee against their inner thigh.

anymore suggestions? it’s such a deadly kick.

Really, is that your professional assessment? Is that why boxers who have enhanced training reflexes still get whacked by Muay Thai kicks? The Muay Thai kick is telegraphed, that’s why people still get whacked by it… Okay, bub…

You’re training partner at a kwoon trying a Muay Thai kick while you defend it is not Muay Thai. If you want to learn how to fight Muay Thai, go to a real gym and learn. I can’t tell you how many times somone has told me MT kicks are slow, or telegraphed… yet, when we get into the ring, they can’t even block it or are holding their shins by the first minute.

The proper way of defending against MT is mobility, technique and timing.
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bamboo

quote:

The proper way of defending against MT is mobility, technique and timing.

I think thats what every one here was trying to discuss. How about an example of what type of technique, or perhaps the use of speed and angles?

quote:

If you want to learn how to fight Muay Thai, go to a real gym and learn

Of course he has to go to a gym and learn, but whats wrong with discussing in a martial arts community before hand to gain some insight? I think thats just smart.

-Bamboo
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8LimbsScientist
I think its fine for us all to be discussing different approaches to evade/deflect/block/counter the round kick. But lets not forget that the easiest method with the greatest chance of success are the blocks used in Thai boxing. Thai Boxers have been using these techniques to counter the round kick for hundreds of years, and if there is a way to streamline a technique which consists of raising your leg, I don’t know how that could be.

Also, some of these techniques seem extremely difficult to pull off, in a way that depends on your opponents skill level more than your own.

Consider that not all Thai round kicks are telegraphed like everyone here assumes. By the time you register your opponent wants to kick you his shin is already flying towards you. So now you have the split second between realization and impact to pull off your technique. This is why any technique other than stepping out of range, or blocking “the thai way” is extremely iffy. Thats just the way it is. If you want me to smile and nod and say that all of these techniques are equally plausible then I’m sorry. I’m not saying that they are impossible, and if they’ve worked for you, then thats great. But lets not mislead people into thinking that these techniques are just as easy as simply blocking it in the way Badboy and I have described.
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EvilScott
quote:

Originally posted by IronMonkey
Also, EvilScotts “A” example is extremely risky. Misjudge and you’ve just accepted a kick to the ribs. That really would suck.

When you look at the physics of ANY strike, you see a point at which the power is at the maximum. Moving beyond that point, even if it is still in the path of the attack, will make them waste a lot of force and momentum, and result in you having an opportunity to block a weaker attack.

As I said the key was in the sidestep and grab – PRACTICE. A MT/Jun Fan guy taught me this, so I know it works against MT kicks. Just make sure to move and don’t stop suddenly when you grab the foot.

As for evading every attack – we ARE taught to do this, it’s a big part of WC. The trick is with every evasion comes a simultaneous counterattack. Fighting my Sifu is like running you head into a brick wall. Once again though, like anything in MA, it takes practice.
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*Gong*Sao*
Monkey, I pretty much agree with what you’re saying, but I think dcohen had a valid point. If they knew they could get a takedown from one counter versus just maintaining their position with a different one, would most MT people go for it? Probably not since it would be useless in the ring. I agree that the MT counter is probably the most reliable, but that doesn’t mean that with practice you couldn’t learn one that would work better in a street situation since it wouldnt’ give your opponent the chance of a follow up.
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zaius
quote:

Originally posted by Triangle
The Muay Thai kick is telegraphed, that’s why people still get whacked by it… Okay, bub…

You’re training partner at a kwoon trying a Muay Thai kick while you defend it is not Muay Thai. If you want to learn how to fight Muay Thai, go to a real gym and learn. I can’t tell you how many times somone has told me MT kicks are slow, or telegraphed… yet, when we get into the ring, they can’t even block it or are holding their shins by the first minute.

The proper way of defending against MT is mobility, technique and timing.

the low roundhouse kick is telegraphed more than other kicks since it is side stepped at a 45 degree angle to the intended target. think about it. and if people are getting “whacked by it” what’s the point with your “proper way of defending against MT is mobility, technique and timing.”

who said i was going it at my kwoon?

if you want to help instead of flame, then discuss this with an example. any FOOL can say to avoid any sort of attack is by “mobility, technique and timing”

have you noticed that your post is NOTHING like others on this forum? you’re blantly limited in knowledge and yet still insist on wasting all our time with your mindless, idiotic dribble.

thank you all for all your help about this matter. i’ll try it out with my friend again.
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DeStRuCtIkOn
quote:

Originally posted by The BadBoy
Des what the fock are you talking about now. You turn your back to me when I throw a kick at you I’ll feint the same kick and sock you in the back of the head. Its how tacticians work.

And, really, what makes you think you can pull back your kick and throw another one before I’m underneath you and throwing you over my shoulders? I don’t care how talented the person is, no one is that fast. Especially when the target you want has so dramatically changed in the meantime. I’m not just dropping level, I’m entering for a throw here. Last time I checked, Muay Thai didn’t have any kicks for a target essentially at your own crotch. Worst case scenario is that the kick is not aborted and I take a thwomp on my back. Big deal, I’ve had worse.

quote:

“I’m getting really tired of the whole “it doesn’t work if it doesn’t work on a guy who’s won a title,”

Why would I want to work at a block that wouldn’t work against someone who knows what he is doing.

Because no one has tested every last thing. Because even the world’s greatest champions have not seen everything that could happen in a fight. Chances are very high that the best Muay Thai fighters would have no idea how to handle a guy who doesn’t fight like another Muay Thai fighter, hence the overall importance of both JKD and MMA. Unfortunately, the basis of both of these movements has been lost. So many people readily adopt the “use what works” creed, but have no intention of finding out just how much can work if it is trained properly. No one experiments, they just train styles and techniques so primative and simple they couldn’t possible fail. Guns can jam and require maintenance, so are difficult to use properly, but a rock is still deadly even in a chimp’s hands. That does not, however, make the rock a better weapon to use.
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EvilScott
You rarely know the level of your opponent (skillwise) in a street encounter, so to be successful you must always assume he is better than you, faster, stronger, and has trained for longer. Assume he knows all your moves. Assume he’s better conditioned than you.

Is he any of these things? Maybe. All of them? Most likely no. But you don’t know so it is wise to finish things fast with something that is VERY effective against as much as possible. Does this mean only learn that one technique? Hells no! I think having more than one way to deal with a kick is a great thing – each way has its pros and cons and you never know which pros you want and which cons you want to avoid in any given situation.

Perhaps this guy is much more conditioned than you, and steps in with punches as he throws his low kick – evading and counterattacking from the blind side would be perfect here. But you can’t always rely on this – what if you are fighting on a slippery surface (ice is a reaity in Syracuse, NY, where I am) or you are in cramped quarters? Have another defense, like a shin block, ready.

Nothing works best in all situations – someone who says they use things that do is too lazy to learn more than one way to do something. And in MA that something tends to be pretty important.

There is more than one way up the mountain, but who says you only need to know one?
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thebgbb
quote:

Originally posted by EvilScott

When you look at the physics of ANY strike, you see a point at which the power is at the maximum. Moving beyond that point, even if it is still in the path of the attack, will make them waste a lot of force and momentum, and result in you having an opportunity to block a weaker attack.

I have to disagree here, but only to a certain extent.

If you crack a whip, there is definitely a small area, or “point”, where the strike is most effective. But if you swing a club or a baseball bat, there is no point where the strike is the hardest, but instead there is a plane or “arch” where it is the hardest. Unfortunately for the defender, this arch can be pretty big.

Not all strikes have a “point” where their power is maximum, like a whip. Muay Thai Roundhouses come around over a long arch, and the portion below the knee is relaxed to make it like a club. I would say that there is about a 3 foot arch in which the kick will have equal force, regardless of when you get hit within that arch. That is why the MT roundhouses are so devistating.

Moving in on a snappy kick is not necessarily a bad idea, but moving in on a clubbing kick can be really dangerous.
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zefff
jeez!…there is a load of crap flying about the place on this thread! it seems a lot of folk who open their gobs have not truely experienced the range of true Thai round kicks. They are awesome! People should not talk if all they have done is a couple of drills in class against their mate.

okay the dude who posted the question asked WC exponents, so i will answer…

Listen to Badboy and Iron Monkey, they have proper experience of MT by the sounds of it.

Listen to formless and thebgbb, it seems they have some knowledge of dealing with the kick from a WC perspective.

Des is the kind of madman who is large enuff and crazy enuff to absorb the blow as long as he gets you in the end so only follow his route if you are big and crazy like him.

Okay now thats out of the way here is my 2p. Yes we could all perform an infinite variety of techniques to counter the roundkick but lets remember that in combat we (us and our opponent together), perform moves in beats at tempo. We aim to confuse our opponents rythms while making the most of our own. But if you are within striking range and the kick has been launched, lets assume your beat (rythm) is behind his. All you can do is employ a movement which is smaller than his attack so as to catch up.

Okay, phew!!! so now I should be covered against all “but I would do this comments!”

In Wing Chun we recieve all kicks above the waist with our hands. All kicks below the waist height are dealt with by our legs! Kicking the opponents kick is the WC way. Hard to do but this is the skill that the WC exponent must develop in keeping with the concept of lin si dai dar. But if you dont have the leg speed then raising the shin is THE simplest method with the least risk of compromising your position.

Do not underestimate the roundkick. A lot of people cant do it well at all and its training with these guys who will make you think you know the kick when u dont. Only people who regularly train the roundkick actually have it! There are loads of differing methods and ways of deploying it and when you meet a guy who can kick well you will fear it, trust me.

If you want me to go into what actual WC techniques I think work best then just ask and I’ll post.

cheers,

zefff
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thebgbb
quote:

Originally posted by The BadBoy
Des what the fock are you talking about now. You turn your back to me when I throw a kick at you I’ll feint the same kick and sock you in the back of the head.

If you are doing that technique on Des, don’t forget to yell “Tony Danza!” When you do it.
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EvilScott
quote:

Originally posted by thebgbb

If you crack a whip, there is definitely a small area, or “point”, where the strike is most effective. But if you swing a club or a baseball bat, there is no point where the strike is the hardest, but instead there is a plane or “arch” where it is the hardest. Unfortunately for the defender, this arch can be pretty big.

Actually, a baseball bat is a good example. It doesn’t seem like it, but there IS a point in that arc where the power is maximum. Sifu Bob Maucher of the Academy of Applied Martial Sciences demonstrated this principle to me using a Muay Thai kick.

Think about this – it is a fact that baseball bats have more power when both arms are as close to extended as they get (when the bat is swung by a player) that it does nearer to the end or the beginning of their arc. The same is true with a MT kick. If your target moves your kick still follows into them, but there isn’t as much ‘stank’ on your kick. It’s physics, dude.
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thebgbb
I didn’t say that there wasn’t an area where the power is the strongest. I’m saying that it isn’t a point. The bat/club/shin does have a region where the power is strongest. My point was that said region is much larger for a clubbing attack than it is for a snapping attack. It’s an arch (which is a small portion of the overall arch of motion) instead of a point.

This is why you see a lot of sloppy looking MT kicks still knocking people out. Sometimes it connects early, sometimes it connects late, but it still has enough force to knock people out. The kick didn’t necessarily connect at the exact point that the attacker wanted it to, but that didn’t matter.

Watch some Crocop fights, you’ll see what I mean. A lot of times his roundhouse connects earlier than expected, but people still go down.
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EvilScott
I’ll concede your point that the MT kick definately has more stank than the average kick throughout the arc, but the other thing that makes the technique (grabbing leg) work (and it takes practice) is that you don’t just stop and snatch. You slow down but keep moving at the end of the kick arc. There is still some force, but executed correctly, most of the kick’s power is lost before you nab it.

It takes lots of practice, but can be really useful if someone is trying to keep you from grappling by keeping range with kicks. It actually works BETTER on kicks that follow thru (like MT kicks) instead of ‘snapping’ kicks because you do not have to be exeedingly fast in your grab.

I’ve used this technique with MT guys, and if you know of Francis Fong (not MT, he’s WC/JKD) this is a warm up exercise we used at his seminar.
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The BadBoy
quote:

Originally posted by thebgbb
quote:

Originally posted by The BadBoy
Des what the fock are you talking about now. You turn your back to me when I throw a kick at you I’ll feint the same kick and sock you in the back of the head.

If you are doing that technique on Des, don’t forget to yell “Tony Danza!” When you do it.

Ok who is Tony danza?

and if you were fighting someone who turned their back onyou every time your through a rear leg round kick. would you not feint the kick and then kick him in the back of the head? If that thought woudn’t even pop into your head then you guys really need to start sparring more.
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EvilScott
Tony Danza is an old sitcom star, in particular one who starred on “Who’s the boss…”

I heard from my frat bros what a ‘Tony Danza’ was, but I will spare the board’s younger viewers from the definition…Just suffice to say that it is reminicent of the ‘Donkey Punch’
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The BadBoy
I just got a horrible, horrible mental image of Ron Jeremy shouting “Tony Danza”
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bamboo

quote:

People should not talk if all they have done is a couple of drills in class against their mate.

Please don’t assume that drilling in class implies that the person kicking has no MT experience, nor that its a “couple of drills”. Sounds awfully condescending.

I agree that the MT people would have the oldest and probably most effective technique to stop a Mt round house in a MT fight, BUT, I don’t want to play the Mt game nor stick to those rules. I won’t box a boxer or grapple with a grappler, I will play by my rules.

Des talked of the firemans throw, it reminded me of sankyo koshinage or aikiotoshi (which I would use or uchi sankyo nage waza as stated in my first response). I don’t think a MT fighter would be expecting that sort of technique. Do they train against those throws and joint manipulations? Or do they train for MT matches? Perhaps a MMA would but then all would different again.

-bamboo
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zefff
Evilscott: this grabbing the kick u talk about – explain more. How do u execute it? Is it a WC technique??? I dont recall it off hand. Do you grab a kick to the thigh as well? I am confused…

Bamboo: u r the one who makes an assumption…read that line u quoted me on again.

It says “People should not talk if all they have done is a couple of drills…”

It does not say “Dont talk if you have trained in MT”!!!

I dont know why I bother trying to explain myself, okay I will shut my mouth…does that make u happy?
—————————————————————————————————

bamboo
ZEFF said:

quote:

Bamboo: u r the one who makes an assumption…read that line u quoted me on again.

It says “People should not talk if all they have done is a couple of drills…”

It does not say “Dont talk if you have trained in MT”!!!

I dont know why I bother trying to explain myself, okay I will shut my mouth…does that make u happy?

I misread your intentons with what I quoted and how I responded,
I apoligize.

As far as shutting your mouth, I’m not sure where that came from, I was merely responding to what I percieved as the questioning of drills and training. It was not an attack nor a request for you to “shut your mouth”. I’m not here to fight with anyone, just participate in what seems to be an intelligent exchange of ideas.

-bamboo
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zefff

no problem man! It was morning where I am when I replied so my tolerance was very low at the time. I just cant be bothered to argue with people on the net anymore so I am quite blunt sometimes.

On “shutting MY mouth”, again I think u read my post as some mega-hostile reaction, which it really wasnt. I did not think u had told me to shut my mouth, nor did I think you had implied the same, so respect.

Anyway back on topic, I hear wot u r sayin about not playing a MT mans game. That is why I advocate movement or kicking the kick. But if u need a quick defence whilst in the thick of it, the shin raise is a safe bet – but that does not mean I wouldnt employ Des’s method if I found myself flowing in that direction.

The original post asked for a WC perpective. I gave mine whilst reiterating the awesome power and flexibility of the true roundkick which we should bear in mind when practising its defence.

Thanks for the apology, it is appreciated.

Peace, zefff
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EvilScott
quote:

Originally posted by zefff
Evilscott: this grabbing the kick u talk about – explain more. How do u execute it? Is it a WC technique??? I dont recall it off hand. Do you grab a kick to the thigh as well? I am confused…

Kicks to the thigh are too low to grab unless you’re on the ground. I would go with a MT style shin block or step in and blitz them if I saw the kick coming (the kick will still connect but there is less force nearer to the point of rotation).

As for grabbing the kick, I think it is a JKD technique but I’m not sure. Francis Fong was using it at a seminar in Cortland, NY I attended – maybe it’s Jun Fan/JKD? I don’t know or really care – it works.

Assuming it is a kick coming from the side at your midsection…
What you do is sidestep with the motion of the kick and scoop the leg with your arm. It takes some practice to get the timing down, but when you do people won’t want to kick you like that anymore.

Another, meaner mid-kick block is raising your knee and touching your elbows to it, arms pointing up. It kind of a shin block with your forearms extending your shin. There is also a WC block (two handed), either Con Sao or Kwon Sao – I forget which it is. That is the same basic thing only you don’t use your shin, substituting an arm and catching the kick at an angle so as not to catch all the force directly.
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The BadBoy
Tried dCohen’s takedown today. Got really sore ribs from all the trying to pull it off. But I can get it to work now and it works a charm if you time it right. Cheers Davie Boy.
—————————————————————————————————

Pec
badboy

just wondering if u specialise in a certain type of MA cos you always seem to come up with good points but they’re also very varied about different styles?

Also u must have some good mates to let u practice that move on, i read the original post an it sounded painful!
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The BadBoy
They didn’t have an option, I just kept trying to pull it off in sparring Should’ve drilled it first, my ribs probably wouldn’t be as sore.

No I don’t really specialise in a martial art. If you look at my members page you’ll get my background, but I more or less use whatever I can get to work.
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8LimbsScientist
EvilScott

Actually, MT DOES catch the body kicks sometimes, it just isn’t the easiest thing to do, and its also very risky. But I feel compelled to mention that in MT we move INTO the kick really quickly instead of OUT of the kick.

You are suggesting stepping back outside of the range where the kick has the most power. If you are in close enough, try stepping into it at an aggressive pace/angle and you should be able to catch the kick before it reaches its highest velocity. Once you have the leg caught, you can do whatever your fiendish mind cooks up.
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dcohen
quote:

Originally posted by The BadBoy
Tried dCohen’s takedown today. Got really sore ribs from all the trying to pull it off. But I can get it to work now and it works a charm if you time it right. Cheers Davie Boy.

One of my favorite things to do is working with planes. Though sore ribs are definitely a great teacher and an even better motivator, try it in “slow motion” from all the angles you can imagine a thai roundhouse to the leg coming from BEFORE you go do it full speed and full power. It will make your ribs less sore, although it sounds like you have it down now .

Glad it worked for you, I just re read my explanation and am amazed that you got it through the jumbled crap I wrote.

Have fun

-David
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dcohen
By the way, a tip on reacting to one of those. After your initial peel-off reaction, think of having your leg match speeds with the kick. Your leg will naturally rotate in your hip socket. That way, you get the basic plane from your leg along with the gear motion of your turn…it ends up accelerating the kick into the mat, the pavement, whatever. When you can do it that way, start going slower than the kick until it looks like you’re just slowly turning around.

It’s a fun thing to do and your opponent thinks he’s got you for most of it.

-David
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zefff
either I am tired or I just cant visualise as well as badboy but Ive read back and still cant quite see whats going on with Dcohens method.

When we turn are we rotating the left foot back or thr right forward? Do both feet remain planted on the floor? Is weight distributed equally or is it on one leg?

please fill me in as I really want to try this
—————————————————————————————————

dcohen
Yeah sorry about that Zeff…I’ll just re-explain.

So, this explanation assumes the kick is coming in on your left side. What you’re doing is making a plane with your own leg, so the opponent’s leg can slide along it (i.e., his brain feels that it’s ‘working’ for MUCH longer than it actually is).

The way to go about it at first is slowly. Understand what you’re doing before you pull it off full speed. Your initial reaction when you see a kick coming in suddenly is to peel off – in this example, basically pirouetting on the spot to the left and probably raising your hands in defense.

What you’ll do is make that upper body peel-off transfer to your lower body as well, while sticking out your right leg as if you’re about to step off to the left while turning 180 degrees. You’re basically turning around and stepping onto your right foot.

Your right arm can be doing whatever as it spins past your opponent – hitting him with your palm in the orbital (below the eye), punching him in the throat, elbowing him, etc.

It’s very simple, it requires very little time (i.e. you can do it when the kick is already almost there if you’ve been taken by surprise), and it can seriously fock up your opponent’s ankle if you’re on a hard surface.

Hope that is a little clearer.

-David
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Guyanson_Mendiola
If he throws a Muay Thai Roundhouse Kick then you would have to lift your leg up and take the hit just like what IronMoneky said or you could do a 90 degree avoiding but unless his kick goes all the way around instead of chambering it back again and then your screwed.
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*Gong*Sao*
MT kicks aren’t chambered. You have to either step in, out, or find a way to take the kick (shin, back, dcohen’s method).
—————————————————————————————————

dcohen
MT kicks are nicely “designed” in that all available power goes into the kick, even a good percentage of the kickers bodyweight (‘jacking’ into the kick with the rest of the body). It would be working backwards to try to “stop” that kick and pull it back. Your balance tends to be on one leg, whereas a good low kick has the balance sort of in between legs…it is more of a powerful step than a kicking motion.

So with that kind of stability and generated power, they just follow through…all that trouble for a kick, and you might as well let it penetrate and maybe bruise deep tissue or break something.

This is the inherent power in a Thai kick, and also its inherent weakness – it’s pretty committed most of the time and has shitloads of kinetic energy for you to work with/whip off course.

So that’s what you should be exploiting, be it my way or some other guy’s way or the way you found to be most efficient for your own body type. Hell, personally I would throw in a trinity strike as I turn to the left (with my right hand), but that’s just the way I work.

Trying the stuff out is cool, but even if you’re doing “techniques” you should certainly be adapting them to your own body type and way of working. If it’s comfortable and natural, you won’t forget it because it’s ‘in’ you.

Enough soap box time, just figured I’d put in my 35-37 cents.

-David
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*Gong*Sao*
quote:

Originally posted by dcohen
Hell, personally I would throw in a trinity strike as I turn to the left (with my right hand), but that’s just the way I work.

I know you don’t always like to give too much information about your style, but could you explain what a trinity strike is? I’ve never heard it before.
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george stiles
i’ve wrestled for many years in both folk,free and grecko roman styles when someone throws a rear leg round house kick at me if it is thrown above the waste line on my person i usualy shoot with a single leg take down to the post leg of the person throwing the kick. if they throw the kick to my legs it is a very hard kick to block. I will usualy throw a lead leg snap kick to the groin its a faster kick than the round house because it goes out in a straight line i can here my physics professor saying the shortest distance between 2 points is a straight line. and if the atacker is fatser than me i will turn my leg out and block with my shin bone against his shin bone

i kick an 8×8 post i have rapped with rope and burried in my back yard to condition my shins for this purpoe
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dcohen
quote:

Originally posted by *Gong*Sao*

I know you don’t always like to give too much information about your style, but could you explain what a trinity strike is? I’ve never heard it before.

Not a problem.

A trinity strike is one of the most versatile movements someone can do. It’s based on the idea that once you’ve delivered your initial movement (whether it’s a strike or a counter or an initial reflex is irrelevant), there is left-over kinetic energy in your arm. I doubt anyone will ever deposit 100% of the force they generate into a given target…some never makes it to the fist, some bounces around with residual muscle tension, etc.

The basis for the actual movement is – the most efficient way to get rid of excess motion that would normally overextend you and make you easy to work against, is to let that motion continue outwards from a different point. “Trinity” strikes are one motion, except different body parts of the person you’re hitting bounce off of your hand something like 3 times. You can make it so your arm simply keeps going, but “trinity” comes from the traditional Russian use (and perhaps Russian Orthodoxy).

An example: I throw a standard boxing cross at you. Whether my cross successfully hits you or not doesn’t matter. What does matter is that I still have residual kinetic energy in my arm, which didn’t make it into your head or your block or whatever, and it’s still drawing my arm along the original vector of the punch. If I keep going I will become off-balanced and overextended. If I try to pull back my unsuccessful cross as fast as I can, my arm will move back on a straight vector, but the rest of my body (both skeletal and muscular systems) will have to adjust and “absorb” the kinetic energy, which makes my BODY easy to work with.

The solution is that I hit you, miss, and suddenly bend my elbow forward while rotating my body towards you, into a non-overextended position (I’ll end up standing somewhat perpendicular to you in this example). Simply imagine my arm bending and my elbow drawing the rest of my body forward into a straight alignment again.

From there, I’ll work with what you give me. If my right elbow hits you in the upper jaw and your head starts to move to (your) right and back, while your right shoulder drops slightly, I can let my fist finish its circular motion downwards (it’s being drawn along by the tension of my stretched-out oblique/pectoral muscles balancing themselves out) and then hit you with sort of an upside-down hammerfist strike to the solar plexus. The result is I’ve regained my form and you are hurting in two places.

Hope that begins to explain it. When it happens fast it looks like the person who attacked you is just sort of running at you and then bouncing off of your fists, elbows, etc. It can really overwhelm someone, especially if you are using it to attach to everything they throw at you, and then ride it in to destroy the stuff they’re trying to protect. From a third person view, it usually looks like you’re making a circle with your fist, be it vertical, horizontal, or something in between.

It can be nasty.

-David
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HongKongDragon
quote:

Originally posted by 8LimbsScientist
Lift you leg up and take the blow on your shin or knee.

I saw someone who did a Thai Roundhouse Kick toward another person, the guy defend with the Shin block as described above. The kicker’s shin snapped in half.

There is another way, which my master got challenge in Thailand. The Thai boxer did a Thai roundhouse kick, and my master did a phenoix eye fist and punch the center of the kicker’s shin. Same thing happened. The kicker’s shin snapped in half.
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zefff
im still stuck on the first move…gonna try it 2nite but I know its gonna hurt cos I cant see it in my head still. Do we turn 180 degrees towards the kick coming from the left, pivoting on my left foot?

Do I use my right leg as the “plane”?

thanks again…
—————————————————————————————————

The BadBoy
quote:

Originally posted by HongKongDragon

I saw someone who did a Thai Roundhouse Kick toward another person, the guy defend with the Shin block as described above. The kicker’s shin snapped in half.

There is another way, which my master got challenge in Thailand. The Thai boxer did a Thai roundhouse kick, and my master did a phenoix eye fist and punch the center of the kicker’s shin. Same thing happened. The kicker’s shin snapped in half.

I’m sure this had something to do with the guys bone desity rather than the block. As for the Pheonix eye. Were you there to witness it? Is that not teh punch where you hit with the second knuckle of your index finger. You thumb over the top of your hand r

Post: zefff:

What a poor post. Its not constructive in any manner whatsoever.

…and why would any half decent martial artist fear the knowlege of Muay Thai? WC cannot defeat MT, MT cannot defeat WC. All that can happen is one dude gets his arse kicked. :roll:

Sorry to say this but putting forward the notion that “everyone is afraid” denotes that one might harbour fears in his own heart and might use his practise as a crutch for support, a shadow to hide within or a perch to sit upon and mock others from.

The thread questioned a technique, not an entire art.

what a sad way to reopen this old thread. :(

lets hope your reply gets it back on topic in a constructive manner. :mrgreen:>

Post: Blade:

Taking it on the shin would probably be the optimal choice, if your in close range you would probably have some time to intercept the low kick as he makes distance to kick.>

Post: MrApollinax:

Actually I would believe the optimal choice would be a stop kick. However the quickest reaction would be to turn out and take the shot on the shin. I think this is the most common defense because the action is nearly reflexive and easy to train in a short time. At close range i wouldn’t be worrying so much about the round kick, rather than a clinch with knees.>

Post: Michael M.:

How exactly do you shin block? Wouldn’t that be dangerous to your own shin?>

Post: 8LimbsScientist:

Actually, after some more experience and the advice of more experienced kickboxers, the best counter to the round kick is a teep (push kick) to the hip.

Michael,

Thai kickboxers condition their shins over time by kicking the heavy bag and as such are more used to the pain you get when you clash shins. But make sure you get with an instructor to show you the correct way, because you can end up hurting yourself. Another thing is that although it hurts you, it hurts them worse :twisted:

One aspect of blocking the Thai kick that was covered on mma.tv that I thought was interesting was, stiff leg versus loose. In other words, when you block a round kick do you keep your leg stiff so that it doesnt move much when hit or do you keep it soft so that it swings in when it makes contact.

I thought this was interesting because to be honest I never really much thought of it…I just blocked the kick. According to forum member Khun Kao, you can use the loose block to unbalance the opponent because if you kept it hard it allows the kick to rebound and lets them recover balance quicker. The downside to this is some hard kickers are able to slam right through your blocking leg, take out your standing leg and land you on your ass.

Basically both stiff and loose have their places. It depends on situation.>

Post: kranker66:

-I have not learned the push kick defense of a Thai roundhouse yet, as ‘8Limb’ describes- it sounds interesting though…
In our MT class one way of defense against the roundhouse is to side-step away from the kick and catch it, lock the leg against your side tight and push against his shoulder to take away any punches that might be coming, if you don’t lock the leg tight he’ll push his shin bone into your hip and get out of your catch.
-But you can always take it on the shin which is probably the quickest way to defend against it.>

Post: Gumdo:

I don’t train Muay Thai, so I don’t have hard shins. I mean, I do enough kicking drills and work the heavy bag so I don’t exactly have virgin shins. But Every time I’ve sparred with a muay thai guy, and I try the shin block, it just kills me. I’ve taken it close to the knee, and also the middle of the shin but it doesn’t seem to matter. To this day I can feel the lumps of scar where I got hit. Does anyone else have this problem?

Cheers,

J>

Post: kranker66:

Gumdo

– Have you spent time preparing your shins?…
the work on the
heavy bag will only make them tougher.
It takes time to strenghthen them, so don’t expect to do it all at once.
If you feeling pain from sparring, go at a lighter pace
with your sparring partner- at least until your shins have hardend.

cheers

Edit from NinjaKl0wn:
Your post was edited to remove some misinformation.>

Post: Gumdo:

Yeah, A buddy of mine was big into Muay thai, and he was always buggin me to toughen up my shins. Isn’t there some sort of long term damage done if you do that though? He spent a lot of time in Thailand, and had some nasty horror stories about what an retired thai boxer looks like at 50…

Anyways, outside of hardening your shins, is there any way to do the shin block that causes less pain/damage?>

Post: 8LimbsScientist:

Conditioning your shins involves a slow and steady process of kicking the heavy bag. Don’t look for short cuts, you’ll only hurt yourself.

There are other options besides raising your leg, but if you are going to block a kick with your shin, its going to hurt no matter what.>

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